good morning everyone uh and welcome to the Sweet digital service Forum our by-weekly meeting uh that we're hosting from the Enterprise architecture team uh today uh myself Peter calwell and Brad Diamond um are your host and your speakers for the day so we're really looking forward to getting started and working with you and uh if there's anyone that today is their first time at the meeting we would really like you to introdu introduce yourself just in chat feel free to you know please you know share your name the company and um what you do um so that we can welcome you to the group uh unfortunately for all of us John is uh traveling this week so uh you know this is usually his spot to shine so I'm sure he'll be listening to the recording so if you have anything you want to say to John too or just wish him luck or thanks him you know Now's the Time to make him embarrassed when he watched this this recording so that on that note Peter have we turned the recording on it says it's recording perfect oh it's paed no it is okay all righty so um what are we gonna be talking today so Brad uh joined our um our community at the end of June and um really talked about governance and operating model today we're going to really really focus more around those governance programs and go a little bit more in depth and to round out the conversation that we started um after he's done I would love if people are able to hold on for a little bit and discuss maybe some topics that might we might want to do uh in the future so both ones that we've been thinking about a little bit plus you know we're always looking for speakers and people to join um so if you have a topic you would like to present to the group that would be great so Brad I'll hand it off to you and I'll make sure we add people that are um stuck in the waiting room sounds great Peter thanks very much for the intro and good morning good afternoon good evening folks um those of you who are are regulars you might remember me I did uh as Peter said I joined the call um a few weeks back talking about governance on the platform operating models and some of our our best practices in that regard as a followup um we thought it might be a good idea to sort of take it to the next step and talk about getting how do we help give you some guidance on getting your governance programs off to the right start so this is really leveraging some of a lot of the information we have around best practices in this that a lot of people often don't realize where this information actually is so hopefully we can really um help out with that today because this is such an important topic and so many of often so many times I see customers struggle because they're Miss missing parts of this or maybe they don't even know where to begin so let's talk about you know what what is service now governance so if we break it down it's really the decision-making framework that's going to Define how our strategy or portfolio and Technical decisions are made but also who has the authority to make them so if any of you were part of my call a couple weeks back we've posted the video online you saw the governance model that we talked about right there's three governance boards and each of them has their own kind of decision-making process they each have their different uh members that make up those boards the strategy governance board the portfolio governance board and the technical governance board so really why is this so important it's going to streamline that decision- making process that's required to Define how your organization is managing and using the platform sorry I'm just get that out way okay so what's the difference between my strategy my operating model and my governance so this is a great question that to to start with and really we want to just get it out in the open right your strategy describes what you will do in terms of the business outcomes and the value you're going to capture and the service now workflows you're going to implement to realize those outcomes and value so making sure that we have our executive sponsor in place our center of excellence and Innovation our strategic governance board this is going to have the the things in place to allow us to set and approve our strategy going forward so the operating model is going to show us how we can realize our business outcomes and the governance model is going to give us our decision making rigor and ability so the purpose of today's conversation is really just to go around you know what are the steps we need to take in order to to make this a reality so really we have uh there is a lot of information on this and you'll see at the end of my material today I'm going to give you all the references that you need to to look up the in-depth material on this this is really just uh a summarization a quick view of what are all the important parts to putting this all together so it is a four-step process right first step one preparing to implement governance building our governance model defining our governance policies and then making sure that we have a plan to continuously improve governance so let's break down step number one how do we want to go about preparing to implement service now governance we've got five components here right we need to make sure that we've got someone to design the program and coordinate its implementation we need to make sure that we understand what are the other governance requirements in the organization right are there standards that are already in place on how we're doing this elsewhere let's not reinvent the wheel just for service now if we already have some standards and Frameworks in place but let's make sure that we extend it for service now we're going to talk a little bit about building a project plan we're going to make sure that we get an executive sponsor in place and then make sure we Engage The Right stakeholders to help us implement this so what does this look like so assign someone to design design your governance program right do we have someone accountable right we do need to make sure again this comes down to roles and responsibilities which we talked about in uh the basics of setting up governance for the platform well just the same as we need those roles to be identified we need to make sure who's actually accountable for implementing the governance program and we also need to ask ourselves is this person uh at the appropriate level in the organization do they have the right Authority do they have the right experience to lead this governance uh program from a design and implementation perspective if we did not answer yes to both of those questions then we need to make sure that we look through the organization to find the appropriate person looking at our technology governance requirements right let's make sure that we have a check here right do I know about all the relevant existing governance and compliance requirements that the organization has and do I know how to align service now with those existing governance models and again we did not answer yes to both of those questions here's what we need to do we need to identify any of the existing governance models and make sure that we can consider them as we're building this out and let's make sure we make a list of anything we learned about governance in the rest of the organization that we should keep in mind as we're looking to build this out for our service now model we do not expect that this is going to just happen we do want to make sure that we plan for our success so just just as any other technology implementation let's make a project plan for implementing our governance program so just as a a quick sample here of you know things to look at again we don't need to you know boil the ocean with an in-depth project plan but we do need to make sure that we identify the key tasks assign them to people give ourselves start and end dates how long should this take and let's make sure that we're monitoring this status so you know this is just a a quick boilerplate on uh where to start what are some of the key things to start with uh we do have a little more detail in some of our other collateral that I'll share with the The Links at the end but this is just as a getting started again we talked about getting somebody assigned to design the governance making sure we understand how decisions are made right build a project plan let's put this in place so that we can make sure that we are going to be successful when we look at you know getting a an executive sponsor in place right there are some important things things that we need to think about and consider for our executive sponsor right we want them to be uh we want a strong uh executive sponsor so L are some of the characteristics we need to look at make sure that they are able to be a champion for service now's capabilities make sure they have the ability to influence others make sure that they've got access to resources to help maintain and enhance the platform make sure they understand what are the you know the obstacles that that might be in the way right how can they help Drive outcome so these are some of the things we want to look at as we're deciding on who our executive sponsor is going to be for the platform and for the governance program okay when we look at the last component for Step One is building out our stakeholder map so you know our governance we need we need to have certain roles we need to especially have our platform owner but part of this is going to be you know our platform is going to need to set up our governance committee structures right coordinating some of these initial decision-making processes documenting and updating our policy and process and making sure that we're collaborating with some of the process functions around the organization so some of these key roles that executive sponsor that we talked about making sure that we have a program manager from our pmo do we have our platform team established so again linking back to the the content we talked about a few weeks ago we talked about the platform support team some of the rules that are required there are they in place our service owners right what what services are we supporting using the platform let's make sure that they are part of this overall governance and if we have any architecture professionals that are in the organization they also need to part of be a part of this whether it be Enterprise Architects solution Architects or platform Architects they all have a distinct role that they do play and let's make sure that they are part of this because there's going to be a lot of technical requirements we need to adhere to they're going to be the ones to help us with setting those those directions step two this is building out our governance model so once we've identified our people and we've got a plan in place let's start to build this out so the first three things right setting up our governance board the executive steering board the technical governance board and the demand board right these are the these are the critical critical pieces that need to be in place for any governance model to be successful so we're going to talk a little bit about what makes up each of these boards we want to make sure we also Define how information is going to flow across those governance boards to inform decisionmaking and then lastly we want to make sure we understand how to identify and escalate decision-making needs okay so when we look at our executive steering board right what is the purpose of this this is driving success of our service now program right these are the people who are going to understand how to prioritize our investments in the business with the business goals and make sure that the service now platform is set up to achieve those where we've decided to make it relevant right we're going to this is the board that's also going to monitor programs and making sure that any risks that come up ultimately they'll come back to this group for decisionmaking and ultimately this seem as we talked about last time they are accountable for the service now program and more importantly the service now roadmap okay when we look at the members right the membership we talked about that last time as well we do need to have our executive sponsor our platform owner business unit Executives right these are very important as we are leveraging the platform to support these business units we need an executive to understand the relevance of how service now is helping to support them okay responsibilities and decisions right what are we doing with this again driving success to the program right aligning the prioritize right this is part of our Charter uh it's almost almost duplicative of our Charters the responsibilities and decisions here but also making sure that you know any benefits realization are being understood by this group and any conflicts get resolved by this group outcomes from this or this group that aligned road map that aligned release schedule right having that overarching understanding of what is going on at a high level from a programmatic perspective making sure that enhancements are in line with our road map so there is a bit of an approve approval mechanism here again not at a m at a micro level but more at a macro level right we're going to have our road map our part of our other boards going to make sure that any enhancement requests coming in are going to align with our road map and when there's a deviation that's when we're going to have ultimately need to escalate to this group to say hey is this an enhancement we want to we want to proceed with do you guys approve it our technical governance board right this is going to be the gatekeeper for the technical aspects of our platform right any design options and Technical options and approaches are going to be assessed and understood here and this is also the team that's going to put together any of our development standards how we're leveraging capabilities to best fit within our requirements UI standards data governance right all the a lot of the the standards and policies will ultimately be defined by this group right plat members of this group shouldn't be a surprise this is largely the platform team so we have our platform architect our platform owner our development leads our platform lead administrator pardon me uh any interface owner right because we're going to have Integrations from other systems that's technical in nature that's going to be all part of this team as well right and this team is going to provide things like approvals for solution design or guidance on requests for technical support from projects right making sure that we're doing things the right way setting those standards for the organization and lastly the third of our our initial boards we want to set up is the demand board right and then again this is doing the assessment of all all demand intake coming in for enhancements on the platform we need to make sure that we've got an assessment of the effort um what are some of the design option possibilities understanding what is our um our future uh workload going to look like so we can make sure that we have uh proper resource uh resourcing available to execute upon these um and this is really again largely the platform team but we do have some some Architects on here as well to make sure that we're the key here is alignment with outof the-box capabilities as much as possible for the business requirements that are being provided and proper prioritization right that is ultimately what this team is going to look for and and help with okay I thought this was important um getting Demand right is really a key piece and so I wanted to reiterate some of the steps needed to build out an effective demand process right let's make sure that we have that demand manager as a role to to do some of the the um design of the standard intake form but also help Pro you know apply the scoring mechanism on demands uh and basically running the process right we need to have a demand board the demand board is going to assess the value of these requirements coming in because at the end of the day this value is the most important part of understanding all the requirements coming in for enhancements what value does this provide to the organization if we can't quantify it why are we doing it so having that demand board with the right stakeholders representing each part of the business that these demands are going to support that's a big part of this uh our standard demand intake practice right part of this is also un establishing who is allowed to submit demands we do not want demands opened up to everybody and anybody in the organization if we want to expand to you know that broaden audience that's where uh ideation comes in play create ideas submit ideas up vote down vote ideas then the most popular ideas can be converted into demands but actually creating the demands should be limited to um representatives from the line of Business Service owners or the service now platform team we want to make sure that we are evaluating prioritizing and approving our demands using assessments so that we can actually score these with qu quantitative data as opposed to qualitative data okay so typical leverage things like Risk um level effort level uh or business value are are some of the the key Dimensions that we should look to score uh on these assessments okay we want to make sure that we're aligning these demands to business outcomes so this goes back to our strategy governance board creation of our overall road map for the platform what's the North Star for the platform how is it relevant and making sure that every request for enhancement comes in has some sort of alignment to this roadmap if it doesn't we need to ask the question why are we doing this if it's not part of our North Star and this is again where we can potentially escalate the decision making on those exceptions up to our strategy governance board and then lastly this is all going to help us to increase velocity because having access and visibility to our demands allows us to do planning so if we need to ramp up resources from an execution perspective we have the visibility and understand the timing required to do that when I talk about demand we talk about you know some of the the key phases of Demands it's really important to make sure that we're always understanding the value so even when we're screening we're forecasting what's the value that this is going to bring to the organization when we're assessing the demand let's further Define what that value is going to look like and then when we execute on that project let's make sure that we're realizing that value let's make sure that we're taking steps to measure the value that this is bringing to the organization right because ultimately we want to measure this stuff so that we can then improve upon it right if we don't have the right kpis in place we're not measuring out out comes uh that's one of the places where a lot of organizations struggle to for adoption or use of the platform because we're not measuring those outcomes in the first place so let's make sure every demand coming in we build that in as part of our process to bring this out into uh into production uh one of the ways that we can help scale again this is going back to the some of the scaling conversation but again you know when we look at our demand process if we've done this right we can represent all of the different business units based on the products that they're consuming in the platform and we want to make sure that they've got their own separate backlogs their own separate groups that are going to execute from a development and delivery perspective so that way we don't have HR um you know preventing risk from from implementing enhancements on on irm because the HR ones got a higher score from their stakeholders now they're all going to have their own their their own queue or their own releasee train and their own resources dedicated to uh working through the backlogs for each of those products um relevant to each of the business units that they're supporting okay an important piece here is understanding what is the communication that needs to happen between the various governance boards so this was a a a great image that uh that I wanted to to make sure that I shared um because it really I find it really helps to clarify where what conversations are happening and where so if we read through this right our executive steering board they are talking to the demand board about strategic positioning strategic initiatives guiding principles this is going to help the demand board make the decisions on prioritization for the demands that are coming in right demands for approval and planning those are coming into the demand board and the demand board is going to go back to the executive steering board with prioritization requests and budget requests potentially right the demand board is also going to talk with our technical governance board for demands that are coming in that need to be assessed right part of the technical governance board there will be some stakeholders there that are going to be providing assessments so they may not all be part of the demand board some of them may be part of the technical governance board as well and just like the demand board will also when we get to our operations cab right the demand once it gets starts to to move towards implementation the demand board can provide additional details and information to our our change Advisory Board uh as we're looking to move this into production so Brad um now might be a good time there's there's a few different customers that have a situation where the platform team is on or is more than one of these boards right so a platform team might be the technical governance board the demand board the architecture and the governance board right so how do you start to look at where people have to wear mult hats so great question Peter and this is where I'll sort of refer back to our our previous conversation where I outline the the the actual roles and responsibilities for each of the governance boards so there should not be excessive overlap and if there is then you're struggling you're you're you're struggling with the common challenge of you haven't designed these boards correctly right the the biggest challenge that I find with when organiz ations have not done this they're asking the platform team to do everything and that's when the platform team becomes a bottleneck right so the platform team the technical governance board is where the majority of the platform team resides the outside of that in the executive steering board and the demand board really the only people that are from the the platform team that exist there are the platform owner and the platform architect um I believe those are the the only roles that really span outside of that otherwise everyone else is part of the technical governance board and we need to have these unique roles outside because the demand board is going to be a lot of people outside of the platform support team right our stakeholders around the organization um sorry the demand board will also have a solution specific architect which is part of the technical governance as well uh but we need to make sure that we're bringing people from your representatives of our business units are part of the demand board because they're ultimately the stakeholders the executive steering board that's our executive window these are the people with the Strategic vision for our organization uh there's only just a small touch point back to the the technical the platform support team to understand some of the relevance but the platform support team by and large should be part of the technical governance board within the technical governance board if you don't have a large footprint of people your your people can wear multiple hats in multiple roles so you know maybe I have somebody who is a developer um and um and my service catalog manager right that you know that could be an example of someone wearing multiple hats right that's okay uh if you don't have the size for everybody to wear their own hat um but again I I recommend um having a look at the the previous um session we talked about when we went into this because we do have a slide where we very clearly talk about who should be part of each of these governance boards and it is important to make sure that the um the platform team is not spread out trying to do everything because as soon as you do that that's when they're becoming the bottle that we need Executives involved and being part of the executive steering board we need our stakeholders involved as part of the demand board we need our solution specific Architects part of the demand board to make sure that when requirements come in we're mapping those requirements to out of the box capabilities and we're not building technical debt by asking someone not familiar enough with the product to design it and coming up with a script which is then customize something which is then build technical debt and we haven't thought about a payment plan so it's going to live with us forever and cause undo pain so let's make sure that we take the steps we need to have the right people doing the right things sure um and then and I think this is going to refer back to the previous session too but you know there's a couple questions on what needs to go through the demand board um is it like if you just have a new form or updating a form or is it more along like just focused on the big new module you know Global sort of situations y yep I got the question perfect so great question and again we this definitely was covered in the last session but the the short answer is everything goes through the demand process what needs to go to the demand board is ultimately when you put your demand manager in their role you also set a threshold of what can the demand manager approve on their own they do need to have some autonomy so for some of those minor form changes or minor form creation whatever it might be you know depending on the threshold you want to set whether it's based on complexity or based on effort level the demand manager can just authorize it approve it and make it go through without having to be assessed by the full demand board so that's really the answer to that question everything goes through the process we need to log everything because we need to understand the value of everything um but not everything needs to go through a full assessment process okay we got anything else Peter okay I'll I'll move on um so just rounding out this conversation here right the technical governance board right again solution design impact and effort that's conversations to have back with the demand board right we're going to make sure again this is where the solution specific architect is part of both of those teams uh but this is where they're going to make sure that you're leveraging out of out of the box capability as best you can and not creating custom solutions to something that already exists in the platform um implementation review results right source code review as we're building things uh with our development teams on the technical governance board right we need to submit those to our change Advisory Board uh that is pretty typical request for assessment again as we're going through cab there's going to be a change request we're going to need to have it assessed they're going to get that information from the technical governance board as well and then you know implementation status back from the operations cab back to our demand board again it started as demand we converted to a project to execute it's being implemented we need to come full circle make sure that we close that off at the end okay um the last piece uh and sorry forgotten defining how we identify and escalate um this decision-making needs this really comes down to understanding service now fit so I highly recommend you know this is something that'll help you align with your North Star for your organization and understand you know what is our purpose of using service now so understanding what's a good fit for our impementation what's a bad fit for our implementation so this is you know pretty generic across the board this is can apply to any customer these are good fits these are bad fits but you might want to come up with your own for your organization to leverage as guiding principles for your strategy governance board to leverage okay so step three you know Define our governance policies so we want to get a set of guiding principles or golden rules and then get our technical governance policies and standards that are going to Define how the platform should be managed so again when we look at you know what are some of the initial principles again here are some recommendations that we can look at right think experience first drive change challenge the status quo this is a great one we talk about digital business transformation right what is what does that actually mean does it mean taking your process that exists today and moving it into a Swanky new platform like service now or does it mean actually challenging how you operate today and changing that by moving it to a new medium right so so I like to look at digital business transformation is changing the how do we do things business outcome is still a business outcome but the how is changed so this is this is a great one here quickest path path to value with acceptable risk right that's always going to be let's not over complicate things let's not boil the ocean let's keep it simple uh out of the box first this should be this should be a given it should be on everybody's overarching principles let's always keep it out of the box and when we have a use case that deviates from something that's out of the box that's when we look to to app engine and we create a scoped application to handle it and then there's no customization to the outof the boox product but rather we've built any customization in a unique business uh in a unique scoped app that's extended something else from the platform and now you've minimized your technical debt position when we talk about the policies that are going to help us right so then anyone who joined me last time will remember this slide uh I've shaded out strategy and portfolio governance policies because we're really focusing here on the technical policies that we want to have in place focus on these five and you're going to be in great standing you know some of the important ones here are things like development policy on the bottom right configuration versus customization policies right how are we going to review requirements for customizations and how are we going to pay back that technical debt right what's our pay plan going to look like um making sure that we've got data governance right who's our who owns the data who's the steward of the data for various parts of the platform in the cmdb these are key things let's get them ironed out as early as we can as we're putting our governance program in place and lastly let's make sure that we have a plan for continuously improving governance so let's look at metrics to measure the effectiveness of our governance and let's always assess and improve our governance performance um this the these I apologize these slides are ugly they're very verbose I didn't really have a great way to to simplify this um but what I've just sort of provided here is just some some thoughts on some initial metrics that you can look at to measure the effectiveness of your governance process and things that you can do to improve your governance process so you know feel free to have a look at some of these metrics uh and some of the details and then apply them to your own situation and your organization and and expand upon them as best you want so I wanted to take a step back so those were the four steps on on implementing governance uh and your governance program um we have a lot of collateral and I'll share that with you momentarily but at the end of the day the hybrid delivery model is the optimal model on how we manage the service now platform right we want to have our core platform team focusing on the stability of the platform looking at it as any other Cloud environment your Azure your AWS your Google Cloud right what are they doing they're making sure the Cloud's available to be developed on and then ultimately you have your development teams aligned with each of the products that you have and focusing on the the business stakeholders to deliver on those things with their own backlogs so this is the ideal way that you can then scale what we're doing in the platform put another way when we take our our governance boards into consideration this is what it can also look like so we have all of our product teams as part of our uh down at the bottom here these are all delivering on the various products they're working on they are you know they link with the demand boards they funnel into the technical governance board and then our executive steering board really working with the core platform team up up top there and lastly um you know when we look at you we've talked a lot about governance this morning um there's also a lot of common components from an operating model perspective things to consider right so just sort of wanted to throw this in here as a bit of a an appendix on um some of the definition that we're talking about so when we say strategy right it's the articulation of the organization's overall strategic goals and objectives right alignment of those business activities with the Strategic direction right that's the core component of strategy when we're talking about it when we talk governance it's the decision-making processes and structures that we need to have right making sure that we've got the right oversight mechanisms such as these boards committees and Reporting lines that we've talked about so people organization and culture right we need to make sure that the right people are having the right conversations so you know giving some illustration on how the governance boards communicate with each other is going to be a great way to understand the you know how these conversations take place and leveraging the roles that I alluded to in my last presentation what are the roles that we need to have what people need to be in which role within parts of these governance boards right processes having our standardized procedures and workflows for Key activities right these some of these are operational to support the products that we're trying to build on our delivery model this is the organizational design with reporting lines departments and teams right tools and Technologies what tools are we using how is service now fit into the overall landscape measures and motivators right if we will not be successful if we don't have kpis in place so as I talked in my last session right the eight reasons most eight the most common eight reasons why customers struggle number one not measuring our outcomes right we need to do that and just like we're going to measure the the outcomes of our governance program we need to make sure that we have metrics in place and we're actually looking at them and taking measurements so that we know where do we start where are we now how do we improve and then our financial model that's always an important part of this and that's part of what you know our strategic governance board and our executives are going to iron out for us is going to be the funding model and how do we make sure that we are um leveraging charge backs the right way for our organization so we will as we always do we will share this material with you um everything in green I know I've got two shades of green on the slide apologize for that I but I did want to sort of distinguish some of the headers versus some of the uh content but anything green here actually is a link to content so there's a lot of content that we have available through our customer success Center um that gave me the input for this deck that I reviewed with you this morning there's a lot more detail you can get into um by going through all this so you know the majority of material came from our getting started with governance work it's more of a white paper it's kind of a PDF um not kind of it is a PDF uh I but I thought it might be better to make this more easily digestible by putting it in a PowerPoint presentation that was really the Genesis of where this material came from but everything that you saw here today just about can be found within that uh governance workbook in the uh customer success Center there is a lot of more detail on establishing governance you know getting the technical governance and governance implementation right we've got our success tool ATS videos FAQs all sorts of other information and then more workbooks and insights for as we prepare to set it up building our governance model defining our policies and preparing to continuously improve governance and then the last piece is you know once you've got that in place and you want to convert this into a center of excellence and Innovation we have a little more material that's more focused on uh a COI perspective that takes me to the end of my material that I have today uh I I hope uh Peter are there any other questions that have come up in the chat as I've been talking there there have um most have been along the lines of governance team if they're not able to you know the structure of it is for larger organizations so how people have been managing or looking at at at a smaller sort of level um but you know and I'm also if people want to come off mute and ask a question they're they're really you know feel free to to jump off and explain more what your situation is is or you know if there are other questions that people want to ask and while we're waiting for that to happen I just uh you know if you're in a smaller organization right the the governance board structure still is important to put in place uh but what's important to realize is that when we get into some of the more um the roles associated with the platform support team this is where you can have one person wearing multiple hats of multiple roles within the the team but we do need to have some delineation between the three different excuse me governance boards in order to get the decision- making from an executive level to a stakeholder level to a a platform Team level hey Brad I got a question yeah hi it's Alan prasa um I I dropped a note into the chat but this is a big huge um well constructed integrated model um a bit overwhelming so one thing is um what's is there a fraw walk run um you know approach to it because for an organization that's not oriented towards governance or has um you know isolated distributed governance and that's actually what we have is that we've we've got lots of city states and and each one you know has their wall in their local government um but there there isn't the coordination um um to come at them saying here's the grand plan everybody align aligned to it um the drawbridge comes up and and we're outside of the mo so so one how can we approach this you know in pieces you know craww walk run and also um how do you approach out there particularly with devops and agile there's a a bias towards Let's do let's not talk about talk about doing um all of this is bureaucracy how do you begin to um melt you know approach get get those people you know on board that just see um governance as bureaucracy so those are two loaded questions for you yeah you're making it real simple for me Alan um no but but good questions nonetheless and and look you know there's a lot of material in here today and and the reality is is that when you break it down it's it's actually I mean so from a wall C crawl walk run perspective no I don't think we've broken this down to to that level um but when you look at the maturity model um that I talked about in the last session we we we do so the three governance boards is actually the the initial maturity level for governance as you start to get more mature on the platform we actually break that those three boards into five and we start to to delineate a little more the the technical governance board we split the platform team and the development teams into separate organizations as opposed to sort of one monolithic one which we kind of alluded to here the demand board we also split into the typical demand board and then more of an innovation board uh for customers that are really looking to push the envelope on where the platform can go and making sure that we're investing in the right things and that has a lot of alignment to our executive steering committee but when we break this down you know it's not like we're we're talking about the these should not be overly heavily lifting things I mean we're talking about making decisions on who's making you know who's in which role you know engaging the right people so that people know about the platform at the end of the day there's a couple of key things to think about we need the EXE the executives executive level in the organization to understand the relevance of the service now platform what is service now mean to us at X right um it doesn't matter if you are you're you're a government entity or your your your private company right every organization should say we use service now for these things but strategically we understand it at the executive level right this is the common problem is our Executives don't understand the relevance of the platform and so it becomes a very tactical um solution to a lot of common problems but we're not thinking of it strategically we're not seeing some of the Dynamics on where we can leverage the platform for exponentially more value if we took it with that that different lens um the other part of your question um sorry and I'm trying to just remember I get stting how do you how do you how do you approach people who say yes devops govern governance is just is just bureaucracy right so I will tell you that I mean this is not intended to be bureaucratic it's actually intended to remove the bottlenecks and when we do this properly it's going to lubricate the process as opposed to prevent it and the biggest thing that you will get out of this is the El removal and elimination of technical debt nobody wants technical debt we can ask all of our leaders nobody wants that um technical debt we also and when organizations do get technical debt nobody really thinks about how we're going to get rid of it so putting this in place is going to make sure because the biggest problem that I see sorry one of I see a lot of problems uh but one of the challenges I see customers face is they get the requirements from a business unit okay these requirements look great here you go developer go build this and then you know what happens the developer very smart developer but not well-versed or trained or certified on service now capabilities what are they do they're going to script it because they can and now you've just built technical debt that doesn't interact with the rest of the platform the way it's the capability is originally designed to but if we have a solution specific architect in this role that takes that requirement they can align it with out of the box capabilities because they know what they are and now we're leveraging out of the box capability which frankly may even be quicker time to Value because it's a short configuration as opposed to developing custom script and we've Al built in the capability that's going to align and interact with the other parts of the platform the way it's originally been designed so when we peel it back and look at it from that perspective we're getting a lot more value things are going moving a lot faster because we're just having the right checks and balance in place to make sure that we're doing the right things as opposed to the fast things that we think are fast that help that's yeah it does and what you say about about technical debt um you know really resonates is you know is there any are there any current methods about how to measure and manage technical debt because if it's Financial it's financial debt that's very well known it's on on the balance sheet and they talk about here's what it takes to service this debt and that's how it affects the bottom line but we haven't we haven't gotten there yet with technical debt well so not as as direct as you might want I mean from measuring it the best way we can measure it is when we're going through an upgrade we'll we'll have visibility on our our skip log uh that's the quickest way to see where did we customize things because the skip log will tell us everything when we move from one city release to another uh another option is using our our health scans of your environment will also indicate Where Have You Been customizing and then leveraging um you know an impact Squad to go through and review those details with the fine tooth comb you'll see all the different places where you have built out this technical debt uh a last one is the unrealized value in the platform that's how we can probably measure the financial impact the best is doing a you know some sort of a A bva or understanding how are we leveraging the platform today what's the value we're getting out of our current use versus what's the potential value if we were doing things differently that's often indicative of either a you're just not using the capability because you haven't turned it on or enabled it or B there's technical debt in the way and the Health Scan can sort of lead us to understanding that then combined with some of those value metrics to understand the missing value that we're not getting that helps thanks welcome all right I'm just realizing I've got my other screen here I can start to look at some of these questions yeah um yes Jason great great comment here you know don't let Perfection get in the way of progress absolutely get started start small right identify the committee's members Cadence inputs outputs start with something um especially just starting with some of those some of that executive steering committee that is a big one getting the right people involved for that that governance that strategic governance board there's often so much um just not understood at their level um it gets gets a lot of traction because it's often missing okay um well Brad thank you so much for um presenting on this topic it is definitely uh a something that we will continuously revisit um you know it it is very interesting from a crowd perspective as we go through this to see how people are facing it and the good part is is that we have different people in the crowd that are talking to each other about how they're doing it at their organizations which is um the Practical end of it right the there may be cases where you don't have enough uh hats or for all the different roles um and it is great to see you know how different people are are solving or are working in that area um you know we're going to shift to um I know Brad has another meeting which he's late to so I don't know if he has to jump or not um but you know part of what we were also going to use a little bit this time is to talk about upcoming sessions and are there particular topics that we want to cover within the Forum um we've gone through different uh sections in the past or different areas and you know would love some input if there's in you know particularly if there's something that people want us to to touch on um I've got a few areas that we've been developing so I'm happy to talk about some of the things that we're looking at but I'll start with you know anything top of mine that would be good topics for this forum so there's an ask for more around governance um it is interesting that you asked about you know going more into it so some some of the areas that we've been discussing to do more around governance is um uh we've been seeing a need around governance in AI um in particular as as one of the areas that um we've been asked to talk more about both AI within service now and overall AI strategies for um an Enterprise own organization another one in the governance space that um we're looking at doing is around um no low no code or low code environments um so governance as you're going to Citizen developers um you know and it it really feeds into this whole conversation Allen was having around technical debt um is is another one that we're um you know exploring or or might be good for this group um some other things we've been working on is around rule engines so um one is just the rule engines uh uh within service now um you know I think last time we were looking there's about 15 of them um that are within service now um in particular uh as a team uh we've been using the pace I don't know if anyone's used the pace uh rule engine before uh so this is really policy as a code engine um for a rule engine so we're using it to make some calls out um to um you know different Federal databases to look up policies or child care and some other things to see what people are eligible um but that could be an an interesting one um if people think it would be um you know some of the other areas too have been around um uh you know csdm we did a series of about four calls at the end of last year beginning of this year but doing a foundational csdm call um if that would be good um you know one thing we haven't done to this for this group is really talking about the the learning Pathways um you know as as a group we're mostly platform owners but what other you know what are the different Pathways if people want to get more in depth or more knowledge about about the platform itself so of those uh that I mentioned does anyone have any of those topics sound good um I'll go through and look at some of the ones that are in the chat too production control so s developers there all right not a talkative uh crowd today as as we're looking at it so um you know there's I'll give back a little bit of time um I do really appreciate uh the team and everyone being on uh so thank you for for attending um please if this is helpful for people within your organization invite them to Future ones and um we're really looking forward to continuing to work with you guys so thank you thank you