[Music] can you believe that we are already up to the zanadoo release wait when well early availability for xanadoo is August 1st 2024 and I suppose everyone's going to expect us to do another tech now webinar right that's right but only this time we are changing things up a bit ooh what do you mean we heard the feedback from our viewers and instead of going through 90 some slides in 40 minutes we are going to spend more time on fewer topics allowing us to actually do some demos demos demos demos all right all right take it easy I see what you did there and yes it's going to be a lot more similar to our style of Keynotes ooh uh so is there anything else people can look forward to well for zanado do we'll be covering things like the newly built-in IDE and SDK along with several new generative AI features and ways developers can use them so how does one sign up for this easy as always go to Dev link. sntn n98 regge and again that is Dev link. sn/ t98 reeg to register for the event on August 1st we look forward to seeing you [Music] there they say all good things must come to an end in this episode we'll explain what that means for you for me and for our developer community welcome to breakpoint the service now developer podcast here's your host Chuck tamasi hello service now admins Builders developers and of course all of the Curious individuals that always say with the utmost love and respect welcome to or welcome back to breakpoint the service now developer podcast where we bring you the latest tools tips and tradecraft to accelerate your career my name is Chu tamasi senior developer Advocate and I am joined by the one and only the Posh programmer Lauren McMahon how are you Lauren you know I'm doing pretty well uh maybe a little sadder on this episode than one's previous and we'll kind of explain why but other than that you know we're kicking we're kicking there will be no tears in this episode unless it's tears of [Laughter] laughter what she's hinting at is if you missed the announcement on social media on Monday July 8th here's a quick recap I have announced my retirement effective September 6 2024 okay we'll give people a moment to pause pull over on the road do what they need to do compose themselves okay get back on the road because here we go uh Lauren I'm sure our listeners have questions so I'm going to let you run the interview okay that makes sense to me I I'll kind of play the role of most commonly asked questions about what we've been seeing online especially too I think the first up you know people really compliment you so much on your energy and how spry you are so why are you retire not bad for an old man right if only some of our political candidates had that energy oh we'll stay clear of that well first you said it right I love my job I love the people I work with I love the people I work for I love you dear listener everyone out there in the ecosystem this was not an easy decision um but the a short thing comes down to I need to spend more time with friends and family uh as I hit to that we're not getting any younger um I just had a wonderful weekend with family in Michigan in mid June it was my sister's wedding it was my dad's birthday it was Father's Day it was a reminder of what's important in life and not that everyone in the ecosystem is not important you are very important but if I have to make a choice which I am I did that uh the coin is falling on the side of family I'm not I'm not going away completely okay we'll get to that in a little bit well also I totally I totally see where you're coming from for as fun as this job is and it is a really fun job it is a very time demanding one right whether that's through travel for work events or just how often we are producing content and stuff it's you know it's no laughing matter how much time you dedicate even on the off hours to it so opening that up I think for family like totally makes sense and I I commend you for it and I hope I can do the same you know couple decades down the line um also I guess personally selfishly I'm also interested in this answer what is happening to this podcast well this has been a journey this has been thought out years in advance and I recommend anybody who is planning the end of their journey to think about it years in advance if fact I jokingly say I started think about retirement the day I started working when I was 10 years old and got my first paycheck so it's it's something that should be in the background it's a goal it's a destination and uh as I got closer the plans became a little firmer and I started thinking about this probably about 2020 and I said hey if I want to step off the the rocket ship or train or whatever you want to call it what needs to happen and I said one of the things is we needed a transition plan for the podcast so as part of that you became co-host in early 2023 was it wow it seems like it's it's we've been doing this for a lot longer because we've been I've known you for so much longer true and you will maintain the reign of the podcast do with it what you will we've been discussing some possible changes we'd like to get listener input what your feedback is for possible new topics that's all going to be Lauren's domain if she wants to be back as a guest once in a while that may happen but we we throw crazy ideas out nothing's off the plate it it's everything is open right now it's kind of fun yeah it's it's definitely a bit intimidating because there's probably going to be a portion where I am possibly doing the solo for a little bit so uh that's definitely something that you know is on my to-do list like prep for and dedicate a lot of time to to keeping the quality as high as that you have all these years so and you've been you've been doing a great job there have been episodes that listeners know nothing about where you let like episode 100 that was totally on you you took the initiative to come up with the idea arranged the question did the interview you interviewed me much like we're doing today did complete editing and post production and there's been a handful of them where you've done front to back so you've got the skills you've got the knowledge you've got the the talent to take this forward so listeners keep listening oh that's so that's so kind of you I and I really appreciate the trust that you're putting in me to keep keep the production going so like that that truly means the world to me as well pretty much everything that I've produced at least as a team effort has been designed to be handed off and that's why Andrew concade was originally on Tech now is so we would have a backup plan or a transition plan or whatever either one of us could go to a different job but the thing would live on and Jeremy and Craig and you know Lauren and Earl and we've had these different people on there so that if I were unavailable it would live on it's not an accident the way things are happening now also you know we've talked a little bit about what to expect in the next next couple of weeks and months but looking back I think it' be very interesting to also talk about your impressions on service now as a company and like have you noticed how service now has changed what do you like what do you dislike about it I'm curious you know there are some things that have obviously changed a lot going from less than 200 employees when I started in 2010 to what do we have over 23,000 now it's it's crazy the growth we've seen yet there's still that kernel of the same company that I see every day uh just this morning somebody in the UAE asked me for some information I don't know this information but I reached out to one of our svps and said hey do you know where I should go for this so very open and and collaborative and helpful environment that it always has been we saw that when it was 50 employees we see that when it's 23,000 so everybody is still very willing to pitch in and do what it takes to make the customer happy or in this case the partner happy or connect somebody with somebody else just to get that done so it's it's been a really fun ride I really have enjoyed watching People's careers transform going from you know somebody who who maybe wasn't even in the ecosystem to I I taught them their first admin class or in your case the first developer what was it the the app Dev course developer yeah and then you know you became an employee in in in doing demos and then in solution Consulting and now as an advocate so that's I I think that's life's reward is is watching people learn and grow and and being a part of it's not again it's not an easy thing to step back from that's the thing that's been getting me out of the bed for the last oh dozen or so years now obviously I think this episode is going live on July 10th correct now obviously that's not your retirement date right you have a couple of months left in between uh July 10th and then what you said was your last day which is September 6th do you have any big plans in between now and and the big dday I just counted and I believe it was 60 days from when I made the announcement so this is two days later we have 58 days and even fewer if you take out weekends and holidays and PTO it's it's not a long time and I am getting a little nervous because along with all of the planning things from I need to change my cell phone service I need to get a personal laptop I need there's a lot of things to take off and do both personally and professionally make sure all of the accounts are you know documented and you Earl knows this and Lauren knows that there's the work stuff but there's also I mean there's the there's the ticky tacky work stuff to get to that goal but we also have this little thing called Tech now for xanadoo coming up on August 1st which the corner yeah yeah and and there's you know what about nine working days for me because of weekends and holidays and time off going yikes uh it's coming up quick so if you haven't already registered for that Shameless plug Dev link. SN t98 regge yeah one final request for Chuck please attend Tech now it'll be my last tech now at least as an employee at least for now again options are open there's also a few more break point episodes we've got Susan's coming up on the 24th of July we've got uh another one we've even got like the last episode figured out for the the the exit week shall we call it so there's still lots of things left to do I am not sitting on my hands I never had any intention of that going to work as hard as ever right up to the end that's the way to do it on top of all this you know those are your plans for the next two months what do your plans for retirement You' already indicated you want to spend time with family but that can only take up so much time do you are you going to start Start Skydiving are you going to pick up you know any wild Hobbies uh you know there there are some ideas floating around Don and I have my wife of 36 years we've discussed a lot of things um primary among them is spending time with friends and family doing travel while we can uh you know we we realize that it wouldn't take much to take travel which we've enjoyed our entire lives off of the map all not to be gloom and doom about this but all it would take is a call from the doctor that says hey guess what you know your kidney numbers don't look good you got to have dialysis three times a week now you can't travel you know or you know you blow out your knee and you go oh well that's going to slow things down so there's there's always that risk of let's do what we can while we can we've got the means we've got the opportunity let's take ADV AG of that and enjoy life while we can so travel is in there we're going to continue to do I do two podcasts for fun not just this one as you may or may not know I've been podcasting since 2004 so I will continue to do that I've got two of them one called techorama the other called the topic is Trek you can find them on my homepage I'll have a link at the end of the show I'm not going to do Shameless plugs there I I do have several ideas for side projects but nothing definitive at this point uh I hopefully will get a little more exercise than my daily 30 to 60 Minute walk you I I'm I'm fit but I'm not strong and again I recognize that you know as you get older you got to take better care of yourself so going to do that uh there's an Ever growing honeydew list that's around here somewhere I'm I'm I've I I've been keeping track of things I need to do everything from fix the back security camera to uh just get rid of the Dead Cactus that's out there you just anything that's that's kind of bothering me I write it down I go yep get that someday there's um I I will continue to follow the service now ecosystem whether it's podcasts or videos there's a lot of great people making a lot of great content out there so I'll be watching I'll be listening once in a while I'll be commenting I'll still be here yeah you're turning it just more into like a service now hobby versus a service now job um let's just say I'm no longer a player in the game but I'm on the sideline watching I like that I like that very fun well it certainly seems like you've got a lot on your plate for someone that's supposedly about to be retired but I get what you're saying I'm like oh like there's no more excuses of like why I can't do X now so that's that's pretty exciting one thing that I think of as someone that's like a little bit like early to midc career at this point what were the challenges in a picking the date B uh you know obviously you've known this for quite some time were there any challenges in making sure other people didn't you know what what was that kind of like behind the scenes yeah I'm GNA preface this with I've never retired before so I'm kind of taking the Indiana Jones rule I'm making it up as I go but I'm drawing on experience from other projects and whatnot as I said I've been planning this for well almost my entire life but as Mike Tyson once said it's all great to have a plan until the first punch is thrown then things change and you have to adapt so my original timeline that we've been talking about for probably the last five years has been end of August 2025 and we we kind of wanted to get to the Milestone of 15 years at service now age 60 and get through all the the named releases too right right we made it to the end of the alphabet that's the one miss sorry so yes I'm two letters short which sounds like a metaphor for not playing with a full deck few fries short of a Happy Meal kind of thing Chuck's two letters short of the full alphabet and no I don't know what's after Zurich yet um we adjusted that because over Christmas of 2023 my wife and I were doing the finances and she said hey you know if you wanted to pull that in you could financially we've got this covered and I'm well that's good news and then my brain went into overdrive going what does that mean yeah because it suddenly goes from an idea and a dream to what are the T why not yeah yeah exactly and who do I need to tell and when do I need to tell them so I said well what would be realistic let how about June 30th which if you're listening to this on July 10th you know that didn't happen um and she said well you know there's there's financial reasons there's project reasons and how about you get to the end of August and then we made it September 6 six so we have a few days in September so there's there's a number of behind the scenes reasons for that but that's where we settled on the date and and you know I was nudged to keep extending that out well there's Dev days in India well there's the xanadoo release and then there's World forums are you sure trust me it's a hamster wheel around here you go from release to event to event to release to and it just keeps going around and around and around and around and I said yeah eventually you just have to put your foot down eventually that's what I did I I had to do that more than once because people said well aren't you going to be it's like nope and especially so the the the the the planning the hardest part was who to inform and when yeah rule number one tell your manager and your manager's manager as soon as you've made a decision and start working on that they helped me adjust that due date a little bit uh so let them know and then you let your immediate team so Derrik Roth Jord and Mark Obie they found out basically right after Christmas holiday when I made that decision I said Merry Christmas here's what I'm planning you Happy New Year we now have a new project yeah and and I told them that early because the plan was we would like to hire somebody before I depart that's not I found out later that's not standard procedure um but they made an exception and as you're all probably pretty aware we made we opened a wreck we made the announcement and we're taking candidates as this is being aired so if you're listening to this in you know January of 2025 you know who won uh the then it was when to tell Lauren Earl and pran of you have to tell your immediate team soon after so you found out shortly after my PTO in January I think it was the first week of February then it was the community team in early March and you know there was a lot of oh my gosh and a few tears and what does this mean and we figured it out uh then it it was it was sort of keep this tight to your vest we kept the the the group fairly quiet everybody was well aware of the confidentiality for the main reason that we didn't want it to get public before knowledge that that would have changed the whole landscape we wanted knowledge to be about the products about the people about the community it's not a celebration of truck it's a celebration of service now so that was the hardest part was just you know walking up to people they go hey can't wait to see you next year like God willing that was really hard it was really hard too because as as words slowly got out to like the larger Community team that's a that's a quite a fair amount of people and so like I would catch myself like almost saying something to somebody and then be like wait I don't remember if they know or not and so right yeah it was just you're talking to Selena and you have to be sure not to say something in public so we were using an internal yeah we were using an internal code name and not everybody was doing that unfortunately so from the beginning I just came up with a Rand called it project caps lock being obscure you know kind of like Manhattan Project or paperclip or you know do this thing that the government does so I thought caps loock sounds pretty obscure we'll go with that so yeah now I even had an icon in my planner that you know I Ed for a capsu so every time I I had a meeting or a topic or something uh you know it was a visual reminder that this is still confidential and and now that it's out it's a bit of a relief that we can finally talk about it oh oh bit a bit it's no it's a tremendous relief it's a tremendous now the challenge is responding to all the comments yeah good luck with that one good luck that's on me I can't tell you how many comments I got when I was the goober that posted about the open position so I can't imagine what it's like yeah like 50 reshares too so it's all over the place yeah and and now in the review mirror people are go ah I see that wreck was for the back fill I like yes that's exactly what it's for we couldn't say that at the time uh otherwise everybody go back Phil who what wait what's going on so there's an order to this and it has to be thought out it was crazy because just last week you know I had meetings with people about the communications plan when are you doing the announcement what time of day who are you notifying is it internal is it external that's specific oh it's all over the place yeah now I did let the executive team Bill McDermot Nick sitson CJ Desai Chris Betty all the all the top people plus the people right up the management chain so above Mark Obi would be Alex and then Mark OB bramowitz and then our new CEO um call CEO not I'm sorry not CEO C CMO thank you for catching me on promoted new CMO Colin and just make sure that the people a is a professional courtesy and B I need to start having some discussions with these people that are not going to happen in time if I don't start soon so things like what are my retirement benefits or how do I you know transition from account to that account it just it it gets a little crazy when they're on vacation then I'm on vacation before you know a month has gone by going whoa you know so it's it's happening quickly but since that point on June 17th there was a sense I crossed over a threshold and there's a sense of finality to it going all right now the clock's ticking it's it's really uh setting in and I'm sure once you this has gone public it's really really going to be you know final but again we've got Tech now we got breakpoint episodes we got a lot of stuff to do before September 6 and I want I'm also trying to set up for things that I'm not even going to be around for so Dev days what can I help with where do we need to go how does Lauren get to India you know all these all these discussions that are going to happen talking about the strategy who are we hiring what does 2025 look like what could we do if we had more Advocates I still want to be involved with that because I have a vested interest this is this is still our team and I it will take a long time for me to stop saying you know we when I refer to service now yeah oh man same it'll be very hard to include we without you there so it's an adjustment period for all of us I am I'm very grateful you let us know with so much time to adjust like I think it it really did allow us as a team to adequately prepare also for the new hire I think that as a very lean newer organization um there was a couple of things that we should do to ensure that their onboarding is as seamless as possible and that's thanks to your input and Earl's input and panov's input well and kudos to you too because you came up with the idea not too long ago I think it was before this whole thing unraveled was we need to document some of this stuff we have been going with tribal knowledge for years years and it it should not have been this way but you stood up and said I'm going to start an Ocean Wiki you know yeah damn the technology Full Speed Ahead we're we're going to build this so tell me what is this meeting for how does it differ from this other meeting because we're all in the same one yeah I think it was a little Annoying to the team at least at first because they're like man do we need but I will say like as someone that came from T from sales which is probably one of the most overd documented departments in our entire like oh come on do we need another PDF but then to go to this team where like nothing was written down I was like there is a happy medium guys I believe there is a happy medium he documentation is like exercise something is better than nothing something is better than nothing even if it is just a a page of links to all the stuff that we use you know yeah and I will say getting back to the career discussion of what's Happening after retirement uh nothing is off the table as I mentioned we're talking about a lot of ideas I may I I still live in Phoenix there's a phoenix developer Meetup I'm probably going to go to those if nothing else to see my friends so if it's local that's probably a given hey there's a snug coming up I'll be there if you know I I can't guarantee I'll be at knowledge 25 if there's a purpose for me to be there whether it's in the background or in the foreground or I just don't want to stand in the hall and take selfies all day as fun as that is it's not a purpose true it's also pretty expensive ticket for that purpose so right right so you never know anything is on the table nothing is set in stone say to say kind of last thoughts here do you have a call to action for the listeners like based off of all this information do you have any kind of last charge for them to do any Commandments from hanh High um first make sure that if you're not already doing this follow Lauren follow prau follow Earl on social media in slack whatever keep in touch with what they're doing because what I've been doing is what they're doing or will be doing so and and whoever the new hire is make sure you follow them too that's the best way to keep in touch we've talked about having this Persona n gr generic account for developer advocacy on social media but I think it means more coming from a person so make sure you're following these people hopefully you know Lauren you'll see your followers go up by about 20% just on this we'll see fingers crossed follow them follow them follow them so you're aware of events you're aware of releases you're aware of the fun stuff there's still a lot of fun creative whatnot I I look forward to seeing that and if you're ever in the Phoenix area I still plan on staying here we're not going anywhere if you're ever in the Phoenix area let me know I'd love to meet up with you have a cup of coffee or beer or pizza or whatever I'd love to meet with you and then I guess finally uh is there anyone you'd like to thank you know you've had a very long storyed career are there any people you'd like to thank for helping you along the way feel like I'm about to break into Frank Andra is my way and now the time has come all right we won't do that I said no tears I wouldn't make it through that song pass the first verse yes there are a number of people I'd like to thank first the now leadership over the years they've given me opportunities that I never would have expected some of them crazy hairbrain like wow why don't we try this like great go for it like holy wow that worked I'm surprised I surprised myself and you that means a lot there there have been opportunities presented people saying hey would you like to be part of my team and I think about it and sometimes I go and sometimes I don't but having those opportunities is really really meant a lot I definitely want to thank my wife and family I mean Donna has put up with a lot from very expensive bow ties that she's like what did you do now and now she doesn't doubt my crazy ideas this whole podcasting thing was a lark at the beginning and now look what happened yeah uh you know my family's been very supportive of this journey even before service now and as a customer be it's gone a long way so thank you thank you to them uh I want to thank everybody who has listened or watched this podcast or the other videos and shared them with colleagues friends and family I know I say I I learn and I share and I change lives and it means a lot that I've had the ability to do that because without an audience I'd be shouting into the wind and it wouldn't do any good so thank you for all that thank you to all the exceptional guests we've had on this podcast and I'm going to put that in parenthesis so far there's still more to come so whether it's our internal product teams or the MVPs coming on and talking about their Journeys or sometimes just sitting here and talking to you Lauren it's really been fun I one of the most enjoyable forms of podcasting for me is the interview and getting to do this has just been a lot of fun and just a throw a big broad paintbrush over it thank you to the service now Community for making me feel so special I still think of myself as a developer at heart that's what I do I will have development projects I will still have a PDI after I retire and I will build crazy things and who knows there might be some content coming out of that I don't know if I'll ever be on the competition level to be an MVP wouldn't that be interesting but that would be very interesting you can take the developer out of service now but you can't take the service now out of the developer or did I get that backwards I don't know what I mean to say is I will still be doing some work I will still be doing this and again thank you to everybody who's made me feel so special all I did is turn on a microphone and a camera one day and you were kind enough to make me feel like a celebrity and and when I go home from knowledge and I get to go walk around the grocery store I don't get that yeah do I miss it kind of do I appreciate the Privacy yeah you know Ryan rolds or Taylor Swift doesn't get that so I get the best of both worlds and I really really do appreciate that well since I'm playing the Avatar kind of as The Listener as well I also want to thank you like thank you for so many years not only on this podcast but of course like in your entire career of how many people that you have helped and all the education and sense of community that you fostered here at service now I I I kind of joked about it in the 100th episode but I bet that you are the most recognizable face of this brand of this platform and that has because of the amount of work and effort and love that you've put into this job and so thank you as well for not only like I said create this podcast but everything you've worked so hard on these 14 years you're very welcome thank you for the very kind words it it reminds me of U what Bill McDermot responded to when I told the executive team that I was going to retire he said in my own personal research before coming to service now quote that guy with the bow tie unquote was everywhere there you go I had an impact on him before he even came to the company like I hope it was a good impact yes hey he came so it was obviously not not that bad maybe that's why he said yes when I saw him a couple weeks after he started and got the selfie that hangs on my wall there you go well this is an odd question to ask to you but because you'll be losing your service now emails and stuff where can the audience now get a hold of you our normal response is find me on LinkedIn I think most of the people here have found me on LinkedIn that's true if you haven't there's more if you want to go hey what's Chuck's GitHub account or what's Chuck's Instagram account you can find all of that on my personal website I've made a short link for that seas. linkme easy to remember first initial last. link slme and if you really can't remember you leave out the SL me and you get like a generic redirect page so that's that's GitHub that's my Amazon page for the podcasting for dummies book that's all the podcasts that I do for fun so if you can't remember any other stuff in there cami. linkme is my center of the universe on the internet well then I will take one more crack at this probably not the final one the outro goes like this thank you wonderful listener for joining us today don't forget yet to check out the other service now podcasts you can find them at servicenow.com Community under the events menu I got to laugh every time I read that now it doesn't make any sense but that's where it is subscribe to this and any of the other service Now podcast there's about 14 of them we invite you to do that and have them Auto automatically deliver to you wherever you find your podcast breakpoint is brought to you by service now for a little while longer the executive prod producers are me and Lauren and if you want to find out more about the service now developer program head over to developer. Serv now.com thank you so much Lauren for doing this today my pleasure as always please let us know what you think about this podcast you can leave feedback or ask questions in the service now Community for more great information on service now development check out the service now developer portal at developer. servicenow.com thanks for listening they say all good things must come to an end in this episode we'll explain what that means for you for me and for the voices in our head nice very cute well we've got July covered because we've got Brit uh not Britney we've got Susan sorry getting people mixed up here um we've got a in wait a minute uh I don't really understand this next question am I doing the outro or are you uh let me think okay but it worked well on the T-shirt where did it go where did it go I'm like I just saw it I just had it I don't know where it went they disappear I can't find the dark thing it's so tiny no crying no crying life is already hard so like don't make decisions that will make it harder she's absolutely right and thank you listeners for joining with us again joining with us and I love the bloopers at end of the show is that crazy that was great I thought that came out really well that's how you do it that's how you do it