[Music] oh [Music] hello hello welcome to the death spal episode so hello and welcome to the live coding happy hour this is July 19th 2024 and as you can see we are wearing a bow tie this is a special episode for someone and it's none other than Mr Chuck thasi the bond of service now so let's give him a hand of Applause for his service towards the community um apparently we found out that this episode is number 231 and six years ago on July 2022 2016 it was the first episode for Life coding happy hour so we have a privilege we are almost CL close to that 2022 July but yeah we are there uh live coding happy hour is is all about showing some cool stuff about service now we will be doing of course live coding with you all du will be driving today our screen and he will be doing the development for us we know Mark we know William they will introduce themsel but today it's all about showing you the process trying to break the system uh trying to develop some cool stuff uh and with that I would like to start with the introduction first I'm Ash M I am the platform owner and the certified technical architect working with national London in Amsterdam uh responsible for the platform roll out I am also a 9x we call it now 9x times uh MVP on the service now platform over to you D I think this way yeah you're on mute it's on Friday hi everyone my name is D I am a tech lead at NN group for seops modules and I'm not that old like these guys they are nine times MVP I'm four or five but yeah that's me and it should work well yeah I'm villam I work at platform which is a cool company I work in the UT Office I work there as an architect and I'm four times MVP hello good morning good afternoon or good evening uh Mark rut here uh yeah former basketball coach Private Pilot and currently working as a independent Serv now consultant and uh yeah one of the Serv now mes and yeah like ash n time MP so our audience might be uh surprised to see four of us so this is the Dutch MVP's live coding happy hour and we have hijacked it same like Mark and William did the hijack of our l v podcast uh we will shortly explain what we are going to do uh in today's episode but before that let's rate our drinks I will go last but Dru we will start with you uh I've got uh how you say that uh Ginger infused warm water because I'm driving today so I I shouldn't be drinking something good so I have this one it's a lemonade an organic lemonade with blood orange so very curious about this one uh I've brought a yeah hat Grand Prestige it's a it's a big bottle uh but uh let's try it out I'm curious great last but last last but not least I'm having affum this is one of the Belgian beer which we get in Netherlands uh one of the good blonde beers which I like but that being said what we are going to do today is we are going to discuss an exciting feature on service now platform which came last release basically but the improvements which we are seeing now and V4 have actually discussed it a lot also in other forums so we thought okay let's share our knowledge on this and try to break the system and try to provide some best practices it's nothing but time limited user roles right we are going to uh mainly Dro oh this way mainly Dro is going to share us how the system works and William Mark and me will try to um provide some guidance towards uh this particular topic but the driver is Dru the controller is Dr so Dru over to you uh before I start you three are not allowed to enjoy you have to help out uh okay so time limited user role let's start with some docs this is Mark's instance so he is so kind to create that link I've logged in this instance for the first time okay so basically uh the scenario is this is a very good functionality and people have been waiting for this for quite long so it allows you to Grant some roles especially admin role for a temporary basis some before this we used to use some middleware or some keyw World kind of things but yeah the good thing about this we have very limited documentation on this and this is just we have and this is a important bit so don't take it as a trick you might have some license implications so let's go through the documentation it says uh go to the form fill that in okay that's all whenever I see a warning I also read it as a challenge right so we're going to treat that one as a challenge today well this is not a challenge this is like a pre requisit so challenge challenge is this I think uh it just allows these three rules so I would like to use it for another rules but let's see okay so time limited this is the table so let's see uh what it is roll okay let's have a look yeah see this is a fresh instance so you can select one and do we have any test users I think so oh randomly pick Let's randomly pick nice let's have a look what kind of access he has yeah and Dru maybe this is the time to show some of Mark's test users we have a long list of Dutch famous Dutch people so if you recognize some of them please let us know in the chat Mark has hidden some nice gems in there and this is also a test for you D if you're a real Dy you can pick them out easily oh no no I only recognize arnard kui when I was looking at this so ah just messing that up this oneils right that is mril okay can someone tell me what's who is [Music] sales yeah oh you you need to know who this is D no oh this is a two time Indie 500 winner two time yeah oh you need to learn a bit more Dutch yeah I'm staying with you guys man so yeah so thing is this user has just the itl role uh yes so let's try giving him admin role and see what exactly happens with the pack and so here is our tab uh start time let's start by now itself end time how much I should select there's a restriction right some restriction should be there yeah it should be within the 5 days but maybe you can uh try and already see if it allows us maybe 10 days from now nothing happens in 10 days we'll need at least one month uh let's try what do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing that uh you can't have it for more than five days yeah I think it it will veryy for every customer right um some customers you perhaps only want to have this for a day or something or you don't want to have to schedule it in the future some other might want it longer but but what can we do about the Dr fig a bit of background right um um because that five days is just to limit the amount of time right um and this is what they call in the business sometimes the firem procedure or breake lass procedure so this is really as it says time limited user R so there's five I would set set it maybe even stricter um so we could break it either way right to say can we make it even shorter or even longer y yeah and I you know what now this is 5 days but in the last three days it was even two weeks when me and Dru uh did a a live stream on this we saw it was two weeks so I think the platform itself is coming with a suggestion that okay it should be really time limited um but like Mark said customers can able to decide on that particular time yeah the tricky thing for me is uh it seems let's first check whether he or she has the ACC I personally prefer exess analyzer but okay so so as an admin let's have a look if he this is the trick here that nobody knows how it is happening in the back end so no additional roles nothing it's just the same ideal thing no role is getting assigned but let's have a look select user uh table admin business rules try business [Music] rule yeah justce these are the messages granting roles what is that we'll figure that out but yeah you can notice the person can write read delete business rules and in the system he doesn't seem to have any role apart from itl so something is happening in the back end but yeah let's let's first start so now the question arises as a platform owner ASU what should be the approach to open this up for users I would say there should be we call it as for I principle before we give any delegated role for limited time it should go via a Au approval step so people who are approving the role are actually responsible for the actions which are happening on the platform because let's consider admin role if you want to give some temporary admin role to someone for production instance and if you are in a finance industry the data is very sensitive and we are audited on very high notes for example within Netherlands we are audited by DNB just an example and they literally check each and every step and what how the person got the access to his production so for me as a platform owner it's very important that who has authenticated this role or approved this role towards production uh so I expect that there is certain level of approval implemented within this flow but out of the box I don't see it through so our friend record producer catalog item maybe also add to to Ash because you're of course working at NN na which is quite a big large organization and I also replied on the chat should this be available on the catalog item and I think for larger organizations uh it makes sense to have that decentralized right but I can also imagine if it's a smaller organization uh just a few admins you want them to Grant this access um and not have it decentralized within your organization but I totally agree if you are going the decentralized route approval uh is of big importance can it also um for example be that hey you're filling out a catalog item or a record producer and then depending on the role that you selected that there is an approval or not or perhaps even um that you also want to do this you submit this on your production instance but actually for your acceptance instance because at uh bigger organizations uh often you don't even have an admin role on your acceptance environment um so that would maybe also be a nice use case um go ahead through question catalog item or a record producer I mean uh the thing which Mark mentioned uh when acceptance comes into picture uh I highly recommend catalog item if it was oneon-one when I say production and the uh so if it's the rights are related to one instance I would definitely go for record producers but that's my uh opinion I personally feel catalog item is better for single instance as well because you might want to add some review process or something that might not be possible through record producer but yeah let's build let's build let's build catalog it three years man so the meanwhile when you are building it like even if why I said record producer when it comes to one-on-one is because there is active flag on time limited user rules right you can only activate it once you have those two or three levels of approval what you decide within your organization um with me personally what the solution which we are developing at the moment in the organization is more about having uh two levels of approval for example duw if Drew requests the access it should go via his manager or product owner and then it should come to the platform owner and then it should be granted uh but like Mark you said if it or William you said if it's really a niche or small organization it's too much overkilling to have it but again it comes to a single point that how important auditing is for you and are you going to give the admin rights in this case to everyone or are you going to do it based upon the change record or incident or problem so I would really like to hear more about it but that for me it's very important to request those rules for specific activities and not just to have fun in production and also just to to add to that I think a best practice that maybe is underutilized is basically the first line of sort of approval which is who are we making this catalog item available for and because I can imagine uh my boss for example if I need admin rights on our production environment of course we want that audit Trail but whenever I need it I can just request it and he wants it to be Auto approved right so if that catalog item is available for me I request it and it's granted so I would suggest to build a way that if I'm the approver or one of the approver in the step uh that approver should be even skipped it should not even go into that step right because I am requesting on your behalf you should immediately get it uh and that's the way we are doing it at the moment to expedit the process but again like I said uh there should be a genuine reason to get this particular role uh in the chat I can see uh Ola is asking a question like so if you are granted a temporary admin role does this mean you can give your yourself permanent admin role right now it's possible but we as uh the the security admins of the platform the platform owners are restricting it so we are implementing a solution that you can't modify this table time limited user Ro table it is only possible for the platform team you will see it but you can't edit it so you can't bypass this whole system so you have to think a bit in future where you say that are there any ways to bypass this is there someone who can hij this particular process if the answer is yes can we restricted you know yeah okay uh we'll discuss it we'll discuss it so uh we have a role field so I'm curious to see what exactly is on this field uh how they have filter that out I don't want to make it a choice list or something so let's see what has been configured at this dictionary okay reference qualif you're now going from the building to Breaking right no I'm just taking shortcuts for building it I don't want to okay I'm making it scalable so that tomorrow if service now introduces few more roles I expect them they don't bypass this function instead of uh creating a query to select three rules uh three roles so yeah which um which roles were behind this refence qual qualify or the SC script include um three roles admin and uh uh there was this one right impersonate on snc read only okay I want to explore how it works uh so if you let's first build the catalog item man otherwise I'm just tempted to break it uh you are holding it down but let's see okay uh first thing first it is a request not order so this up uh okay so I've created one field uh role I'm I'm not uh making container split and all we'll beautify it later on if we get some time and now the next important field is user so it's again going to be a reference uh question user uh you can use requested for field but I'm just going to be and William did had a question right like the user criteria really plays an important role when it comes to the sensitive rules if people are requesting so uh as organization we need to have a strict control over which roles are even possible using this functionality and that drives the main thing if you want to record producer or catalog item because for us if you want to only do this for couple of roles I would definitely go for catalog item like you through would you I should also limit the roles depending on well the groups you already have like some people are allowed to request an admin role some people are only allowed to request admin plus read only for example uh combinations like that perhaps yeah so our thinking is basically that first we start with uh admin role and only senior people of respective teams can do it because we have that uh uh list with us um and who approves I think Dre will come to that point in the later point that how we decide the approvals uh I don't want to hijack his part but the main thing is audience should be really firm to expose this to B external world yeah in the meantime audience can think about how they want to what what can we do to break this because there's no major documentation around this so I think I'm left with the last variable for now enough to start with uh I'll make it 500 M three so Dru uh we have to confess a bit Mark and I are already working on breaking it so you have to be quick uh we looked up the uh script include and we're investigating the next steps already so of course we will give you a bit of time but the time BM is sing challeng me don't challenge me okay uh I trust my instinct the catalog item is fine let's go for building a flow so flow designers sometimes take time to load so uh I would give it D are you not uh using SN utils for this to open Flow designer my is getting crashed multiple times so I'm tempted to use SS uh but I'm just okay so first thing uh let's first focus on the building the decision table first because we want to put some conditions right or should I let's start with the decision T right let's go Drew one interesting question in the chat from what happens if the user is logged out can we still request it for the logged out people or the users uh we can put condition on the reference qualifier for the user field uh or we can test that as well required but I don't think so that would work uh that should be your default Mark suggest some good name what de seasion good name uh um I don't know pick some goals um we we Fortune Wheel of Fortune yes that's how I got randomizer okay one piece of advice don't do this kind of things in your production be follow some naming convention um another interesting question in the chat again from all uh what if an admin adds an inherited role to the role that was granted what happens to the inheritor role when the time is up uh again what if an admin adds an inherited role to the role that was granted what happens to the inherited role when time is up do we remove all the roles or do we only remove the UN inherited rle so thing is whatever change you do will stay it's just that once the time is over they will just take out the role assigned to you through this limited time role so if you delete the incident table it would be deleted as well so basic so basically if you are getting a role if you are getting a role via a group that will still remain even if the time is gone the role which will be deactivated is only the role bya this table time limited user roles so to answer uh and what you said through just to EO it if we have I role coming from a respective group an itl admin role coming from time limited user Ro table what will happen is basically that itl role will still remain because it is coming from one of the groups and only the itl admin rule will go away because it was coming from this particular process or this particular table is that correct yes one interesting thing that I found could be improved in service now FL decision Builder so you notice that uh you have to select uh I'm have to typee the name of the table or I can search with the user but I'm habitual of doing something like uh this for example if I have to search uh what is that uh on the reference field if I have to search for the table what I used to do is uh I used to do for example if I have to search CIS user I used to press this square bracket so it filter uh short uh short list the stuff for me but on decision Builder you don't see that square bracket so it you have to scroll the record anyhow so sis user s user s user okay the best part about a decision Builder is I can select the condition uh for role I would keep the reference record I think for you sir let's play with the location so you can click field Mark can you check if we have any people we're going to be a bit biased here and I'm going to check the uh what you call that whosoever is based out of Netherlands will get a different approval yeah there should be a lot of uses in the Netherlands let me check and the thing is why I'm not getting two tabs okay R okay done here you go can I hide this so user this is location so I'll just put if it is Netherlands uh just see if the spelling or other things is sa yeah I think I think in this instance it's just uh NL okay and if it is just NL that's then uh I have to add a result column so I'm just going to return uh group maybe so that's going to do the approval does that sounds like a good use case yep okay one one quick question right um when we were doing this or when we were evaluating this maybe an open discussion again like do we want to limit this role for period of change window if it is related to change if you are trying to implement a change in production or do you really want to restrict it for one day two day or three days so what's our thinking in this for me it was a bit of tough to make a decision do I want to really limit it to that window or we should have it for a specific time so what are our thoughts when we are building this well I think the way people use that depends because if I'm requesting it for some time I would try to merge two three changes and deploy them together but yeah what do you think William sorry what was the question it was like should we restrict it or should we bound it for limited time like one day or two day or should we bound it for specific change window if it is to implement something which has broken due to a change or you are activating a plug-in uh in production so if the change is for 4 days plan date and start end dat because I landed into this question and I it was very tough for me to make a decision uh because that is also valid question that why can't you make it time bound to the change window if you if you are asking for a change number on the catalog item yeah I I think you're right it depends on the the use case that you want to request it I would say as a fireman procedure I think at most it would be a day right and then you can always request it another time if you needed another day really think about of course limiting the number of admins that you have especially um but then also limiting the amount of time that they have admin access but as you said I can imagine if we break this to include more roles you can say hey maybe for the duration of the next Sprint uh we need as Mark said maybe on a nonproduction environment uh elevated rols for this Sprint that could be a scenario where I think it made sense to extend it by five more than five days yeah I can I can also imagine that um that you have to give some proof right that you have to select an incident that you're working on or a change that you're working on and then you can do can also look at the reference record and what are the the windows mentioned in there right if it's a change for several days perhaps the the time limited user rle needs to be for that days but if it's an incident maybe you should only get the access for eight hours or something because you don't want to overextend it by default right but um yeah just some some thoughts but yeah yeah and I'm going to make it more complex when it comes to really decision making we have internals we have externals so if you want to give access to externals you really want it short right for a couple of hours if they really want to do a hot face if it comes to an internal you can have it for a proong period uh but why we are discussing this again for our audience is all these questions might pop up into your discussions uh with your Senior Management and when you actually do it into your team we went through this particular uh series of questions uh and it's always good to have the discussion uh in such a forum right yes uh okay make a decision one quick thing that I have learned uh from decision Builder experience that if you have complex Condition it's perfect to use decision Builder but if you're doing one to one mapping don't do it like if this user raise that request assign it to this group or something like that don't do it at least if you have two parameters at least two parameters and you can build any tough to tough condition over here and the bit around this is it do consume some compute power so there is one option that everybody should look into people say don't use that but I personally don't prefer to use branches because sometimes uh it's basically used if you have if you want to do so I'll just do so if you have different approvals or different process for different conditions then only you go for these otherwise I think you can again manage this through Dynamic flows as well so I personally don't like to use branches but yeah I'm just going to map the fields for this condition Builder uh decision Builder and ask for an approval we have oh man we are running out of time I should start breaking it I'm tempted to break it I already have a few notes uh in my investigation and I see Mark smiling so if you need help with the breaking uh we are already anxiously waiting uh decision table multiple records the output group it should come as output right here or am I missing something this OD should be res element what wants to Z boot our instance wow okay uh oh I have to create a record as well so let's create that record create record so does anybody know time limited what's see name of that table time was it time limited time there you Art Fields perfect I need to add if condition okay so I'll just do it maybe in the meantime uh challenging question for at least AR and Mark uh can you tell us a story of why you should not get admin access maybe a horror story that something you did in a project that you think by no means I should have admin access but I still have it deactivate all the users that's I deleted the incident table uh once I I did that um when when I was still working on a different uh product uh accidentally I was on the wrong Linux server I thought it was the development environment but it was actually the production environment I just typed the shut down I I think that's really a common scenario right Mark where people mix up the different uh environments so as we say in the fundamentals always change the the color of it and I think now in snu tailes the the plugin that arnard Coy has made you can even with that plugin uh really highlight this is production don't do any development stuff here having said that indeed if if that happens to you the best way to handle it uh just be transparent about it call it out in your team and try to fix it together because we all have those stories right we've been doing this for a few years five years 10 years some people 15 years I have never met anyone that uh never made a mistake and then we're all here to fix it right yeah one interesting example which I have which I had with one of my uh developers in past was there was a typo in this ad query condition in the background script and when that happens service now actually skips that query and it will update all the rhythms right so it was a nightmare imagine the day was 31st of December me sitting along with the developers fixing that thing on the New Year's Eve uh will remember in my mind forever for my life so you did ask right question William it's it was a it was one of the experience from which I have learned a lot that how you should do p review what is the importance of your testing nice uh I think it will work I'll just quickly check I doubt that it won't work uh should I start breaking things up I want to explore yes please break call it okay I I'll follow my Approach uh so it's going to the right approval group so I think if you approve it will create a record so that's fine so how I start I'll tell you that uh first I'll go to the table and I'll just copy its name I don't remember the name that easy and I'll start with this thing first so it will give you everything what has been configured on this table so yeah so First Cash is business rule dictionary entries some ACLS okay business rule let's go into that what it is doing in the back end this is p man so you have to bear with me okay before insert update okay get property uh yeah more than five days I think that is the value so nothing here let's go back uh dictionary what what you just showed on the screen right is uh it shows us that there's a property uh if that doesn't contain a value it defaults to those five days and judging by the name allowed Max days if we go to that property we can change it right so to sort of break this it seems at least from this property we don't have to do fancy stuff right just set the property Val but there is a I think that there would be some trick but I want to uh follow the process that I personally follow so nothing here the one thing if you remember when we were discussing this role field it has some code as well right some yeah script include or something so let's try to get that thing and see how it is working at the moment so okay get I'll search oh this is config helper file nice so let's search that script include where that function has been called Kos to are not you man save a lot of so we have a script include and just one script include it's searching I don't think so if it has reached to this tables and find something yeah I I I expanded the search uh on this instance that's why it takes a bit longer so instead of the out of the box 30 tables it does a few hundred but yeah this is the script includes yeah I found another property that and I think from here it is getting this so one way is to delete that property but when you delete something you would get uh some I mean if you change script include definitely it will show as a thing next place is to look for is CIS properties so I always get confused if it is Properties or property but I think it's just properties yes okay let's search there's one so I assume let's start deleting from the back end two properties maybe to add a fun fact right because you say is it CIS Properties or CIS property like singular or plural and usually you would say all the tables are singular right the the technical names but this one I think is the only exception right so I don't know there could be multiple but who knows okay we can't edit this property because you need right role I okay d That's not not an issue I don't know if if we should show it on the on the live stream but we can edit this main doesn't mean anything for us as a developers I know I think device giving me one so I'll just uh show in folder I'll just open this property you are not able to see my that screen okay I have to reshare uh present uh I'm going to share another screen um I'll do an entire screen okay present share screen share screen entire screen share now you should see um just going to try some role so this is the record that we just saw exported as an XML right so you're now editing the XML of that same record that you just shared in the other screen exactly so I'm just putting user admin I hope that is the one and do would would something like um for the HR plug-in like SNH HR core admin would that Al also work because that is a total separate uh thing right because that's a different elevated rules uh yeah and in a different scope right so that might be an interesting one to test probably more challenging yeah let's start the easy one and see if it works and then we'll try for the I'm just assuming man I'm just trying it for the first time so but you want to you wanted to break stuff right so uh yeah you see whenever if you notice like whenever hackers get in they first print 7 cross 7 before printing the uh the what you call the actual break stuff so that property should be gone let's search and I'm going to import XML choose file this is the one I guess see Mr Goran we had a London meet up recently so I was just building his deck now see the updated or any date hasn't changed but uh it says you have another role so let's go back to our catalog or the was favorite right so let's try I'll try to create a new one and D it might become yeah we can see it it might become more interesting when you actually separate the admin role see seops admin role HR admin Ro from the admin role so you might have to do the same thing which you did right now let's do it just give me Ro name [Music] umore si. admin or snore si. admin we don't have SI plugin on this instance so yeah on this plugin only HR so you can do SN uh HR core do admin or is it underscore admin that's that's the confusing do admin sure it's going to work but this is fun charod admin okay let's go back to the property again uh history time can we can we try mint mint is not is there as a role but uh not allowing multiple records to update the property okay go I don't care here you go import XML I would be surprised if there is no restriction on this but let's try this was the thing that I was thinking like it has um um the right access for main but yeah we can work around that right so indeed you have the delete access you can just it and import it oh nice okay you try request it and if this works of main then we break the internet I think uh 19 I doubt man it will work because uh if you notice the backend script it is uh requesting the cide security script include I don't remember the exact name but let's try okay how's it got I don't know why it's behaving a but okay this person I've given him the this Ro and uhoh we are close to time should I test or should I leave it um we we we still have couple of minutes so if you don't leave was hanging on the cliff okay HR case or which one it's case only both man W nice you you broke it or you hacked it I don't know but I think Earl's now on the phone with the police okay I'll stop sharing I think it's a good point then in the next episode we'll see how we can secure this and we'll try to build something around that I'll stop sharing and I'm joining you guys back thank you so much Drew for uh driving us through the cool feature uh of course thanks to Mark and William for sharing your wisdom with us uh but this is the exciting time so we are going to first do some Shameless plugs um there are many many things coming up I would like to hand over to Mark to highlight some of his Stu and upcoming things so Mark um should we start with things in the Netherlands yes of course okay um for the Netherlands I wrote down a few uh there's an upgrade event coming I will be co-hosting that and presenting at that it will be late September in baren it's an inperson event then we have the serves now user group of course October 9th uh in the we'll share a link for that uh we have the world Forum at November 20 in rdam uh we can also share a link for that do do you also have things for the Netherlands or should I proceed with Worldwide General we of course me and DOA so we have some guest coming up lined up uh nothing to expose it we would like to keep it as secret uh but William yeah I will share the link to my YouTube channel it's at Willam eer and I have some exciting interviews there as well with fellow MVPs rising stars um and also a recap of some of the knowledge topics so be sure to follow that as well yeah duu uh I think we are good here but I want to invite William to be our next guest for latan so we did you hijacked our thing but uh want to do a singular single episode with you as a special guest and you are not allowed to hijack that but great so as we have hijacked this show as well we do have to rate our drinks let's start with you D should we also mention something on the um General apologies go for it yeah really quickly we have breakpoint of course next Wednesday uh I don't know if we should share with who I did saw who but anyway uh we have Tech now August 1st we'll share link then we have the sanadu family release also August 1st or for Australia it will be August 2nd of course yeah um then we have the world forums in general that's October and November uh in six different places I believe but we'll share the link and of course knowledge 25 it's have T-shirts it's 291 days away away only 291 days away that's the announcements go ahead great uh and I think we also have World Forum in London and uh the Creator con Meetup D there coming soon yeah we are planning for a October 2 world forum and a meet up there but the other thing is uh another special date August 1st I think Chuck put retire so if you want to trouble him that this September one or was one September one so you still have one month to tease him annoy him so yeah definitely okay Chuck this was for you uh we all have where the the Bai for you uh but now it's time to rate our drinks so theu we will start with you I feel we had a good success so I won't give it anything less than five awesome William so D just did a for the sphere um I had the lemonade uh which tasted like lemonade so it was good was good helped me investigate the script includes quite fast so awesome Mark so what what was your rating will Willam uh out of five yeah I would say five out of five it was a real lemonade yeah my uh hat Grand Prestige it's it's a big bottle but it's almost empty uh I would say it's a five and we had success quarter point success so it's 5 uh two five yeah five and a quarter awesome last but not least me uh AUM um I would say 4.5 I'm a big fan of Hogan as well so I will go at the moment for or 4.5 um that being said thank you everyone for joining us in today's live coding happy hour again this was the eighth anniversary episode yay I said it's sixth in the beginning but now it's 8th yay um Dru thanks for uh Shing us Mark William again I appreciate your time and uh I hope our audience liked us uh we shared our wisdom we shared our knowledge on this wonderful topic for now I would say have a nice weekend have a nice day evening afternoon where you're located and I I will see you later on thanks from all the Dutch MVPs to our audience bye-bye bye-bye bye [Music] w [Music]