good morning everybody and welcome to the Digital Services Forum by weekly today we're going to go over foundational data it's something that we've been ticking around for a while and finally we have a meeting about it I think we've been talking about this one for about a year and a half so today we're just going to go through and and talk about some of the challenges we have some speakers today that um that are going to share some pieces of that as we go through for those of you for the first time if you're here we always like to have a very active chat on the meeting a lot of times the chat is very valuable when we go back and we go through it because we're able to see what we do next time and and learn more about the challenges that you're facing so that we can bring up relevant topics if it is your first time please just drop your name in there let us know where you're from and the other members can welcome you in let's get right into the agenda today is Ellen on you here yet Alan's on how are you sir how about yes hi Eda and Craig and Donna all right I think we got two out of four so we'll go ahead and get started the um what we're going to do just to get the convers ation started is we're going to go through and we had a very active conversation for 30 minutes where everybody had a lot of thoughts on things and it seemed to gravitate we talked it seemed to gravitate towards locations so we're going to start out at a high level and just make sure that everybody has the right understanding of foundational data and at least if we have a shared understanding of what that foundational data is and isn't and then we'll talk about some of the different sources and then we'll go into more of a deep dive on location so if we look at the common service data model the uh obvious place to start being a lot of people are familiar with that on this call the um the eight on the leftand side are what we thought we'd start out with uh so locations right right in the middle of the page here that was a big area of concern yeah you know we'll we'll talk about some specific areas there but that is one one class of foundational data other were the groups of people how we're creating these in service now so whether they're assignment groups resource groups you know other groups of people that we're using to to manage to uh either routing work to to pull from a a pool of people for resources there's the uh or structure and then on the the three they have here company business unit and department but I also threw cost center in there I know that one's a little bit different and that's used across all of the different objects as well depending on what you're doing uh I know a lot of people focused on the life cycles and making sure those life cycles can proliferate across all the different objects that are being managed business process and I put value streams I just group value streams in here because um those are something that's on the platform now everybody can use them I don't know if they'll end up the foundational data or end up separate from the foundational data but I think they'll end up down here eventually or maybe we should just consider them down here product models a lot of those we've been talking about whether they're the hardware models software models service models all those different models are going to that's another big piece of the foundational data and then cmdb groups right so if you're you're grouping chunks of CIS together whether they're all the Linux boxes and windows boxes or something very specific with a naming convention the way that we can have those groups that's also foundational data because those groups can be used ACR across everything up here so alen or Ed I don't know if you had any more comments or any other things that you would consider in the foundational data CL what do you think of that list to start out with oh I think it's a great I think it's a I think it's a really great list agreed anything big time missing on it that you would go ahead you go ahead what's gonna be interesting on number six because we won't be able to have a full conversation today but how those business processes connect to those value strings is going to be important and and so that one is going to need a separate I think a separate session I mean to talk about it we're just in the process of building out the value streams but your value streams are going to crossmap to your business capabilities and then it's in your business capabilities that you come down to how right so then you can bring back in your business process and that that connection is it's almost there so it might be its own thing is is what you're think okay right with examples I think a lot of these on number six will come with an example we can even use service now okay so I think that's going to be helpful I've been hearing that feedback it's like we give all this Theory and people want some examples I said okay but you always do a really good job of giving examples and we had a value stream meeting a couple weeks ago we talked about using the existing models but I know there's a lot of changes coming in there so that's that should be one we we revisit again pretty soon Alan anything on your um no it's a good list but I see a a pretty clear separation between 1: four and 5 to8 that I look at 1: four and that's really and to me that really says the data that we use um day in day out and and um you know 5 to 8 it really seems to that seems to me to be a diff another level um and you know echoing eda's comments um that understanding the relationship uh between process and service and product and capability um the distinction between those isn't clearly understood at least not by me and our um and our organization so that whole seems to be to me to be a a layer on top of that but the real foundational data I see is in one to four okay delineation that's just my my opinion I like that any other comments just on on the list I'm gonna actually put up a poll here too so that we could collect some data on this and um make sure we that we get the stuff that's really important uh based on that answer I know what Allens are going to be but uh yeah I guess I I just want to do a real basic poll here which is three levels of importance so that we can see what everybody's thinking and then and then I left a second open question if there's anything that we're missing on number two it's just kind of a wide open you know are there some things there that are missing so this way we can order these on the group's importance and see where where we land and kind of post that on our on our Forum so that we can make sure that subsequent things are um prioritized based on that list all right and I will get any extras on here if I see a pattern and things that we missed on the call I'll I'll definitely add those to the list as we go and mention that in the Forum anybody else have any comments on this before we go on right so that will be the foundation data at least the foundation we start with4 yeah definitely csdm V5 is going to be a big topic I'm looking on there and um I we will look at some examples today when we go in on um especially in locations because based on our our conversation we we were thinking man we got to zoom in on something because locations took us a Whole 30 minutes on our planning calls today we'll look at locations and then based on priority we'll maybe look at one or two others that we could pick up on like a part two of these meetings all right let's go down to the next one and then I'll I'll introduce this topic and then we'll we'll share the polls so some examples I know everybody was going to be uh asking for some examples so what I'll do here is um get rid of that one first the if you look at the base tables for cmn location uh right this is a lot of where this is what we're using today for location so if you if you ever went into the schema map inside service now never click on on reference tables with this because it's referenced almost everywhere the location and that's why it's foundational data right so so when I build the schema out for this um you know I don't want to show the list of reference tables so when you look at the um the way that these are all attached in in as part of the company table the life cycle data right the group all all of those are things that are using the location I want to show you how I got there so if you need to look at it in your environment you can do the same so when you go into the table in service now you can um oh I got to log in again you can go ahead and see your your different tables and you could use those um you can use the schema browser to look at how those tables are used or extended and that helps you sometimes understand the data models uh so this one is the one if we start with the location table I could focus on this table and you can see that the location table is extended by workplace location so that's I said click on this referencing tables because there's a lot of them there uh but referenced tables are ones that I could add and then you'll see that these these are all tables that reference the location table so you can have um a little bit more of an understanding of the data model and then even see which different columns that they would bring in now the workplace location table this is just the goal this is to show a standard extension of the of the location I don't W to I don't want to say that you have to have workplace location right but this is a good example how people usually use location so what they'll do is they'll take location and they'll extend it and uh that's what we do when you install our workplace Service delivery is we extend the location table and we create things like sites floors buildings right so this way it's not a geographic location anymore with an address on it but now it's some some space inside a building or some specific floor in the building uh so this is usually how we're going to see an extension of that location piece so there's um there's the core data that you're going to get that's just addresses and places but then the different ways that you Nest these can help you you know make that data more useful or not right so I'm G to hand it over to Allan and Eda and um I know you had a lot of thoughts on this as we went through do you want to go first Eda just a small um comment on this because of the extension from the workplace location um you're just going to use a healthc care provider as an example just this so happens Allen's from one as well sometimes it's really important to know the area and so being able to identify the floor in the region and the area of not only where the person is is sometimes times the doctor might be at One hospital one day in a location and they have some kind of ticket in the other thing too also when we start doing um assets you've got to know that it's on this floor in this corner right so that was getting this mapped out against what you currently have you need to know those gaps ahead of time did you build these out at any of your customers because I know you visit a lot of customers right yeah have you built this model out only is demo data to show examples and what we were getting ready for was to do clinical assets and we needed to know where the asset was okay and then does this data come from any other system like would you get some of the data from ad or HR GIS or was service now its own system of record for service now locations no service now we never use service now as the um Source location it's either going to be their Erp system sap workday whoever else is doing that these days which it seems like everybody right we try to get the data from there on this what's interesting on this core data there's some some areas that you just don't want service now to be the source data of because who's going to maintain it and then it gets out of sync from its real source so what I always try to do is to say if you were to send a check out to someone where would that be and so that's really the main like primary location that I would start with and then start to add in the rest of the information but it gets tricky and you're asking a bunch of questions yeah Alan thanks um our our challenges come from well first one one premise is that our systems of record for location um I'm at um Kaiser Permanente um Healthcare that has locations in northern southern California um Oregon and Washington Georgia midatlantic so multiple um National regions um and those began as separate entities locally managed and so so they grew up each managing their own establishing their own system of record in terms of facilities um there are multiple external systems of record for location data one uses the tool arabus um others um you use other ones and so there are multiple feeds that that come in um and and they need to be reconciled and normalized so that we've got consistent location data um you know across across the organization it's often challenging to get the owners of those systems to appreciate the need for um standardization um oh we're fine we've been using this forever you know why why do we have to change but then if we if we morph it and normalize it as part of import then we own that um that uh that data mod um and and have to keep that up to date so um there are some sources that that take things all the way down to the room um you know which is really important for clinical equipment um to be able to identify you know not just where is this incident but you know where in the building is is this incident is the failure y um now the other thing that's not so much about the data but about how we use it is distinguishing um technical location from user location so um um when when an application fails it may fail in a data center um you know in in location one uh but to depending and which users are impacted um that's you it it could affect the the users in Northwest the users in in Georgia may be may be unaffected so that's more more about use of it but I'd say that our primary you challenge in location is um um aggregating standardizing the data from the multiple systems of record yeah and then and then adding a some of your own it sounds like too right like you're you're going to have some service now specific stuff that you then become responsible for we haven't gone there yet um I hope we don't have to um so you we're still we're still trying to be U persuasive okay right does anybody if you could post in comments if you don't want to come off mute or come off mute does anybody use a GIS system for for this type of data and use it as a system of record I've been doing a lot of work because I'm in government I do a lot of work with ezri but I don't know if other people are starting to mash the ezri data and the service now data the gis stands for geographical information systems and uh yeah in government and utilities that's a that's a big thing is make sure there's um there's different areas you can draw and say that this is part of a a data center part of a property so there's different shapes you can Define and things like that so it gets pretty complicated in that area um there's also these things called linear assets like a highway is a linear asset and then which means you know that there's Highway section 101 Point mile marker 101.1 101.2 so what it it does is it it's a continuous asset but it breaks them up into sections and then there's a geographical definition for each of those sections or like a sprinkler pipe or you know a gas pipe in a building right they that could be a linear asset so that you can dispatch people so that's coming up in our Enterprise asset management section A lot that's that's a big part of a GIS system too hey hey John hey Richard hey uh just as a comment right we're challenged with the fact that we have security right and and so if somebody has a code or something that goes out and they need to respond to a location so they maintain their locations then you got facilities well every room's got a barcode above it but that's always behind right it's never never current then you've got the insurance division because they own property and every piece of property has to have all that information so we have all these multiple databases and the biggest challenge is is who wins right right and trying to trying to take all those multiple sources and aggregate those in the service now then what becomes the right data it's it's it's a everybody's ignoring it because it's such a large challenge to to overcome it's just it's a giant resource suck and we're really having we're just ignoring it it it's it because it's so such a big problem to undertake because because it's not just a it it's not just for it to solve right it's a it's a business problem and it's been it's a challenge and it screws everything up so yeah yeah I've seen some with that that number two on here is transient data we've been talking about that both with assets where where there's Assets in other systems but service now needs to do some work on them but also with locations so if if we're coming in and um let's say you have customer locations in there and there's tens of thousand of customers do we want to keep every single address that we ever have in the service now database or do we only want it to be available let's say in when it's attached to work or when something that when a work item for a specific address hasn't been touched in six months do we kind of purge out that you know do some trimming on the address table inside service now so there's been a lot of discussions about that is we get addresses in from other systems and that's fine because you can on a record producer you can call out to your security system or your facility system right if it's a facility's case you can use their addresses put them in service now when you need them and then dump them when you don't need them anymore so that's been another topic that's been coming up in in in data as well anybody else have anything on this one and Richard have you made any Headway I know you guys were working on this um internally Foundation data in general not just service now Foundation data yeah we we've made quite a bit of progress It's it but it's slow going right I I think we've spent the last six months um at your recommendation and others recommendation just showing everybody the value what why we really need this right so that when we come to you and we have questions and and we're trying to get gather the data to have it so you can realize that value and that it's there for your purposes not you know I could care less whether it's there or not right um and and that's been going very well so it it used to be we were met with pitchforks now we're met with you know with a sandwich so good deal I like that transition Pitchfork to sandwich you know right I'll show you one one more example on here here and said i' like to show examples so what I did it's uh I have a YouTube video for this on my channel and it's actually linked in here but I'll just show you one screen on this for now uh what you could do in service now right is we could build these little custom apps so this is the this is the ID and service now for building a custom app and what I did in here was pretty simple but it was um it was useful for a customer where I have these five different tables and what I did in these five different tables is all I they all extend location uh so what was more important for this person because it was a warehouse they had a warehouse um it was an Evidence warehouse for a public safety organization so what they did is they we built basically the same model um in an application right I built the same model that have done here with um with our workplace Service delivery where it extends location and then creates these things like a building that has an address but you know the space is a is a space that's in a building but it's in a floor in a building right so you can Nest these and you can create um contexts for each of the different areas that come in so this one that I created was for a warehouse so it's basically saying where is it's one of our seven warehouses and then what aisle is it in what aisle level right so there's different levels where you stack them like bins and or the bins are um the the actual locations within the level and then there's actually some of the things we have this circle zones you could say like all these widgets are in zone a and all these widgets are in zone B so a zone is like an arbitrary grouping of aisles or bins or levels so this was uh I had some good comments on YouTube and there's a link in here where I give you the code for this um if anybody wanted to pull down the app and have an example of how you can build your own extension to the data model that's inside of um I don't want to go there right but it'll link out for you when you're in that in that um PowerPoint that I always share for you so I'll put this link in there so that you have it and then you'll see just just an example of how you can build your own versus using one of the ones that comes with one of the service now plugins so John do you map those to the wsd structure then so these are these are still location so these are in the cmn location table it's just a different nesting so you could actually use them in this structure if you wanted to or in some cases you know this might override the structure so if you have a warehouse as a uh a site uh you can even extend that site in the warehouse I didn't do that because this customer didn't have workplace Service delivery oh okay but it's something you could stack onto it right you could say here's a specific definition for a warehouse I I the reason I ask is I've seen all those types in the space table okay yeah so the space has different definitions in there yes I didn't know that so I have to go check that out last comment on location the approach that we're trying to take in order to motivate change specifically Mo motivate the creation of a program and funding to AFF change in the um completeness and quality of the location data is to to um uh is to try to quantify the cost of of using the poor data the cost of missing data of of wrong data um U and that's it's easy to say and and harder to do um but that's the approach that we're taking to try to motivate the owners of these external systems to um to come to the table um and um make some progress on us yeah good point everything comes down to the cost right cost to maintain versus the cost to doing it wrong yeah right John on your example there um maybe this is going too deep but um that's just the data you know would there be some sort of a scanning app um for them to assign something to a bin um I can imagine maintaining those four levels manually you know wouldn't last very long yeah and they already had that they already had these things set up and that's why I backed into their scanner like what they were scanning in on how they were coding the bins good y so I had to back into their model and then just make service now's model match with what they had all right I'll ask you guys for some comments on this uh this is my first time seeing it too but I'll I'll share the results of this but I also will share the results on um I'll share them on our Channel as well so from this it seems like the like locations is definitely one of the big ones uh users is the biggest so users is interesting because um anybody who check users I some of the big concerns I see is that we're getting users from active directory but then we're augmenting that user data with data from an HR System maybe a facility system so what are the some of the challenges around users if you can either put them in chat or come off chat it seems like the most important one on live stream so what do you guys think Ed um well I'll I'll start in here I say the big areas that we struggle with in users and it's users in groups um sort of you looking at those togethers together with users it's about um active and inactive users because we get a feed from the HR System that says oh this um this user is uh is no longer in the company they've um they've left the user record becomes inactive what does that do to groups if suddenly you've got a a group with an inactive manager then you effectively you know don't have a manager or if You' got a group with no active members it's not it's it's not functional so so one is is keeping things healthy um in in groups that the group has an active manager um and at least you know one active member another um dimension of that is when participation in a group requires a skill um if the if the user doesn't have the required skill then then effectively it's not a a functional group and so we want to get to the point where similar to cdb health we've got things in place that will be monitoring that um continuously um probably daily so that when there's an anomaly you know a notification goes up goes to a person and and correction is made uh the other big area for about users is licensing um idle business stakeholder or or or something like that because that's a key driver of cost and so if there's somebody who is only doing transactions every quarter or or or every six months um do they need an a license um daily um um and so we've had a number of cases where there's been automatic Reclamation and then when the user goes to do something they're blocked and so it has to be remediated in real time and that slows down business processes so it's um I'd say our issues are dealing with um keeping things holes as users you know come and go and then also the issue of Licensing okay so when I'm working with a customer and we start talking about the groups and the users I actually come in with a A playbook to see if that's a really good starting point um and here's why so you know on the platform we have different types of work and if you're in a group that works on incidents you work on catalog items you work on you know projects or stories and you want to do resource capacity planning I've got to get the groups right because you can't be in multiple groups you got to have a primary group and then I want to be able to then use some of the new attributes against those users and then you're going to align that because when they do their time cards you're doing financials so I come in with a Playbook to see what do they have existing and to see if I can map it in and if not to find out why because if we don't get that alignment right on the work types the type of work that they do you know the skill set when they go to do their time cards it just it doesn't flow got it all right anybody else have comments if you want to come up mute I don't know if Donna and Craig ever came in are you guys on there see yeah I'm in here we're just taking comments from the group so if you want to jump in yeah I just just hopped on so I'm not sure what was reviewed already we went through and this is a priorities that um that I have on the screen right now of everybody like from from extremely important it looks like the most important thing to everybody is users followed by groups and then Loc on the important scale John I put it in the chat but our challenge is as people leave the company or moove roles we're relying on people to manually maintain the users information and the configuration items that they own um so that's that's been a huge challenge for us is we want to try to automate that without having to have manual intervention from folks oh Laura isn't that a nightm I feel I feel your pain I don't know if there's if there's examples you can provide us for where folks have been have been successful for that or not or if there's there's Integrations we can do better within workday or or what we should do yeah there is um and and we've had a lot of conversations on this especially on onboarding and offboarding because a lot of times what will happen is they'll try to bring in a new person and then they'll say oh that's that's inactive directory ready and it's so all of the different systems have different retention policies and um so they might tryy to do a rehire and they say oh we don't have this user yet over here but workday has it right or workday doesn't have it and AD has it so there's all these conflicts when you're trying to especially when you're trying to bring people back so we had a lot of people that were they had Furlow programs and then they bring those people back in and they want to do a continuation of employment so there's all those edge cases too that make it really challenging but we do have some good examples there I think that would be a good topic in itself is to talk about those users using um IR with users in groups may also be a good idea um one of the challenges we have here is is duplication um and there's man ways to go through that or or there's automated ways to go through that um but I use a really useful tool there you use that today Craig uh we're in the process of setting that up that'd be a really interesting topic to hear more about yeah it'd be really cool to to see oh here's this user and they they have this value where did it come from oh it came from the second level feed or it came from the first level feed that would that sounds really cool yeah we have we have a similar confusion with workday and um ad where attributes can get mixed up and cause duplication is there anybody that feels like they got a really good handle on this on on the yeah I won't I won't say it's a great handle but we require groups rather than users because we've ran across that same problem of trying to trying to manage a individual user and how often they change uh so we require groups and uh any member of that group can you know has the authority to to make changes to it but this way we always have someone responsible for that CI and Lou you're say thank you that's that's awesome I mean the policy I think is the big thing yes where is that recorded is that recorded in like managed black gr yes that's exactly right managed by group is the group that is supposed to be the group that is responsible for the CI it's not the group that supports the that's the inside yeah yeah yeah outside the yeah somebody else on not on mute John okay there did you catch that yeah so the managed by group is the group that is responsible for the Ci or the CI class and support group if you're talking about incident because I think the underlying value is still assignment group when they labeled it a support group uh or no I think it is now support group on incident the online value on change is the change group but is the underlying values assignment group in any case that is the group that you T if you want when you create an incident you select an app service and you say okay every time that app service is selected then assign it to this group that group then basically is supporting that server or that computer but the managed by group as the gentleman before me just said that's the group that's responsible for the CI class or anything in the service now where the data or structure of that particular their CI is incorrect they work on that from that perspective but they're not the same people that support you know rebooting the server or whatever that's how service now designed it now all your groups I guess this a general question too but in your situation is are all your groups coming from ad or your ldap or is it or line in service now no they all come from 80 we require them to be 80 groups that's nice yeah because then you don't have to maintain them right you just [Laughter] bingo I think that's the big thing if you find the good system of Records somewhere else like in the facility system as mentioned earlier a security system but hopefully you got a good ad team and that's you could just add a new group in and then make sure that you're using one of those and if the new one needs to be created you go to the ad team and it syns to service now right so i''d be interesting to understand the distinction there because you can have ad groups that Grant access to a particular application so for example this group it let you into the house and this other group also lets you into the same house but then you can get into the bedroom but the other group only lets you into the living room right so those people that are in those ad groups can get access into that house well that house or that group can be the subscribed by group of the offering right in service now through integration with ad so now you basically know exactly that business app consumes that app service that that offering depends on that offering subscribed by group has that ad group and there are all the members of the group so you now know when you have an outage you can basically send to all the all the different groups that have the different members you know how many exactly that Wills up to say 50 different people have access to that application Boom the not out goes out the notification gets sent to all of those 150 people as it simultaneously gets posted to the employee Center outage you know system status page you I'm thinking about work the work groups too right the pillar groups like when you give somebody that ad privilege it automatically gives them a service now role so that they can close tickets right for that assignment group right so that's the other side that I said the differentiator so the one side is you're you're managing at the offering level the the those ad groups for the reasons I just explained but the other side is the other person was saying that they're pulling the ad groups and those ad groups are being applied for example to that specific app service Ci or maybe it's the infrastructure because we know you don't want the business app as the CI on an incident and then basically when that CI is selected it automatically Associates the group they get the ticket yeah or for a project too I guess that's assignment wise right that would be probably that the group that's closing tickets would be similar I don't know if they're different like you do the SPM stuff a lot right I always want them to be the same because I want to do resource capacity planning and so if I've got you across multiple groups it's hard to do that even if you do a operational plan for your unplanned work incident it it's better to have everybody in the same group then use the attributes that are within the group and the new things coming in with resource assignment to get specific okay the next thing you would say edit is then you would make that group in agile groups and then you can also use against the application model that's associated to the business app for your agile board and your defects enhancements user stories bam you got it I know you it all ties together all right so I I guess the magic there is um if you do have good external systems for users and groups it becomes a kind of a non-issue right you just have to know for the few ARS that have that but it sounds like a lot of people are having to do that on their own yeah it kind of falls in the that we've had um similar experiences whether it's really that external Source you know how well is that managed what what is you know how does that look coming into service now where service now you know has a well- defined organizational structure following the csdm framework and we've got a good U model here to Define it's just how do we plug that in with that external source and make sure that it you know everything is smooth rolling it's been tough and what would be your ex you're you have a couple external sources Donna or you have uh we have ADM people soft okay yeah that'd be interesting that IR example that I heard that'd be really interesting to see that coming in through there yeah and a lot and a lot of times from our people soft it's um it's both users and locations and AD does the the users that are on the locations piece it's more for it was designed for procurement and supply chain not necessarily uh itsm support so there's a little bit of manual work in the location space to to bridge that Gap but there's definitely opportunities we definitely have opportunities to clean it up any other comments anybody else want to come off mute and add anything so ad groups is sync with the assignment groups and hey hey John this is Mitch yeah I mean you know just post a comment like hire in you know I see cissa and some of my other colleagues are on the call you know we because we have quite a few personas um that can make up our our user base we have several sources of of user sort of information from directory for employees and you know student information systems for uh students right uh people soft for you know maybe external entities that you know consult with us or CRM systems and things like that so you know I think the trick for us is trying to align um the out-of-the-box um groupings like it department or business unit Department um and those lists for us often have to be manually maintained um so we struggle with that because we want to make sure that we're for reporting purposes for example you know we can create a gazillion assignment groups right but we want them to map up to a director or a leader within a particular vertical in in our organization right so we we struggle with that and I think you know other people may struggle with that as well so well when you do that through the uh user record so that user belongs to this department well we don't really know what department right because Department in the name it's in it in it of itself doesn't really align with how our organizational our organization is structured right so what's the best table to use for the type of the type of structure we have right knowing that it might be manually maintained well I think you en nowed it right there where is that organizational data kept is it kept in Oracle is it kept in people soft pull it from that system into service now tie it to the user record that way whatever those objects our business unit Department division cost center whatever it may be you tie it all to the user record then you create an incident or whatever on that user and you automatically have all your organizations we actually have two cost centers for one employee because of how our employees are funded that adds a little bit of complication we're trying to use um cost you know the cost center as as a a key attribute so but of course it's always going to be businesses nothing's easy right so so John wanted to touch on one of our challenges and it goes back to both users and locations is often times our locations will function have multiple functions at them uh you know retail data center it can be a half a dozen things that are given and usually they're all identified by IDs and each of each of those specific types has its own character istics region Market whatever um and then the IDS themselves have to be all related to these locations so CIS can be assigned to that so one of our challenges is how do you know how do we take multiple IDs relate them to the location so we can actually relate different types of sites to those locations and that's we we use sorry we use the same thing with users they come in with a location ID they don't come in with the physical address okay I was going to ask what are your types of science um retail data center um we're in Telecom so we may have sell sites and things like that uh you know you may have half a even a warehouse you know sitting in one of those same physical addresses and we're like we normalize our data so I want a single address record but I have multiple things that connect to that address so is there a system of record that keeps like the the geographical information for that and you just reference it with that location ID um we've we've done some customization and basically have an ID table sitting out there where I throw throw IDs and I relate them to location that way I can and we also use use part of the Telecom module the sites table that's where all my site specific data will go and it's related it basically does a look up against the ID and comes gives it the location that way if that way if my location changes the site automatically changes yeah yeah I'm wondering if anybody has like an asset table because I've been talking to a couple customers about this that has an address on the assets but it's not a Ser it's not in the service now location table like it's a reference to an external GIS system or an external system that maintains that location data but so far I've been seeing that everybody's syncing the data at least on the stuff they're working on it's syncing it from the Eternal system by putting put it in the location table all right good discussion any others any other comments on any of the foundational data it definitely looks like I I I definitely see a couple follow on conversations but I'll group those together and um like reconciling the different sources I think is going to be one of the big topics and how to do that um we do that with our IR with our assets but why not do it with this foundational data as well I think I could see that being a big topic being a lot of people have the IR um just throw sorry alen I you mentioned or you brought up the wsd structure earlier and and you mentioned obviously some people don't have that heard rumors that that was going to be integrated into the location structure matter saw coming even in here asking about that is that just a rumor or are we going to integrate those th that that wsd structure you know the whole region space room floor are we going to integrate that into locations inter core you mean yeah I I haven't heard anything on that um see if I can talk to the product manager and ask them if that's going to be the case it would be nice to have it part of that base structure because a lot of people I've seen a lot of people build this themselves especially in the medical world the health care seems um seems like a big problem with this one and they I've seen a couple of them build it out themselves do is the uh indoor mapping application that just was released yeah that in res reservations and space moves and things like that that's all handled in our workplace Service delivery so if you're like moving the HR department from floor one and building one to floor two and building three right it kind of it does all the task planning around the moves but um we we built this out really quick with an acquisition when we had um when Co was around because we needed to identify clean spaces and there was a big need for that yeah I do recall some um some webinars where they were speaking to room um more in relations to how to track your your network equipment in the data closets and that was something that um we've been keeping an eye on and I know that they have I've seen some built to help track what was in that data closet but not so much um with what we've got available and service now at this time okay there's some we have a third party a lot of people use especially in the medical world code neolo and neolo has their own model too for this right which so there's a couple different versions of it out there um for that type of asset location and we have both we've got service now and neolo um on the on our instance and um boy it's fun um the other thing I wanted to mention relative to groups is the tendency of organizations to name their groups to align with the current organizational model um and sometimes just emulating the um organiz organizational hierarchy in acronyms into the group name so you have these strings of two or or threel um acronyms that become the group name and um the the strategy that works um much better but it's really hard to to persuade people of this is to look at something more permanent like services or products um and that if you can align around one of those and um engineering development support you know engagement of a particular thing and divorce it from the org structure then you the the inevitable movement to new or structures um tends to be less impactful yeah excellent all right I I'll bring this up and then if we have any more questions we can uh raise them afterwards this is um this is a link that I always put out there for everybody so that you have access to this on the Digital Services Forum we'll post this video and then any of the material that we have uh that's relevant to this topic we'll post out there on the community so that you have if if a week or two or a month goes by and you want to go back and reference this you'll be able to find it and get this information uh to start with so we'll probably do another series uh or at least another meeting on foundational data and uh I think we got a couple good topics for followup any any any final words from the the panelists nothing more great conversation and thank you everybody who participated and and shared their experience um John I think there could really be some good follow-on sessions um with at least moderate deep Dives um into some of those cases yeah I'm looking forward to the following sessions this is great y absolutely and then John we can use the visual Services instance to start building out some examples that you know people can go and take a look at yep and there's some in there as well um from the workplace Service delivery demo data so you can see the nesting of those locations okay I also like Ellen's idea on the long list it looks like those top four are really together and then the bottom four is another session that you could kind of tie together y I think that breaking up really makes a lot of sense yeah abolutely on value streams with the new models that makes sense so we we definitely have some follow-ups but we'll keep that grouped into kind of like a foundational data grouping so that we can um look at it all at once if we need to go back and reference it question about uh five AO when is that going to be posted even as a draft or is it already uh we're all Chomp ited bits I'm even call Mark asking for a slide and he still won't give me one I gotta take screenshots fair enough there's only two people allowed to show it in uh in Ser three people I think in service now so still to track down a copy but I'm looking at it and going okay when I saw idea coming in it's like oh we're we're becoming part of the party I'm so excited there's a few screenshots floating around out there and I think people are using those in presentations right now yeah so a uh plug for knowledge the there there it was on display at knowledge that's most of the screenshots I see Shane or from knowledge oh like if you go out there and you you do csdm 5 and then you do a search on Google and you come up with some knowledge screenshots like actual pictures from people's cell phones yeah so they're not great all right in case anybody's listening I didn't take any pictures all right well thanks everybody I appreciate the conversation today and uh we'll Circle back around on this stuff for sure and keep it going thanks conversation John thanks John thanks everybody thanks but