Welcome to The Innovation Today podcast where we speak with today's technology leaders about how they're innovating to stay ahead of changing industry Dynamics and reaching new levels of productivity and automation brought to you by service now your partner in digital transformation hey there thank you for joining us today for another episode of The Innovation Today podcast I'm your host Spencer biller director of executive Innovation and strategy of service now and today I'm super delighted to welcome Abby Joshi the senior vice president and chief commercial officer at NT data services Abby welcome thank you thank having you Spencer yeah thanks so much for coming on so we're continuing our our Erp modernization story and it's a bit of a it's a bit of a an initiation into this process of how we can expand what Erp modernization actually means but first we I'd like to know a little bit about yourself Obby and how how this topic really got top of mind for you yeah so I've been in I've been a consultant in the process and Technology transformation area for the last 25 years I would say I've done a lot of work implementing sap for a couple of decades and then alongside also working with Technologies like service now and others that have been the Forefront of of digital transformation lately um so have a very strong background in in solving these uh you know clui problems for our clients uh that involve Lar large and complex system implementations and then their upkeep and and uh transforming with those in the background always so that's that's why really uh you know there's an opportunity for us to get richer experiences simpler uh you know processes and cost savings for our clients through Erp modernization perfect and I would imagine as Chief commercial officer that you're almost entirely customer focused all the time always thinking through the lens of what's happening in the customer world is that fair to say absolutely you know I'm I'm with customers all the time I just stepped out of a of a client meeting to do this the webcast and sorry it was a podcast and I was late because of that that's quite all right that's quite all right well Erp itself is a a pretty robust and large topic it can feel a little bit arduous for some so we know that there's a lot of transformation also happening in this world as part of this robustness and some of the pressing trends that are occurring what are you seeing out there of given your customer focus what are you seeing as kind of the biggest challenge right now that customers are experiencing here right so if you if you go back a few years when sap and Oracle these emersed as the large uh Erp systems that that helped you know different parts of the organization get realtime data and and work together versus working in silos over the years these systems became more and more complex and if you take the the example of sap any typical client of ours which is a large a very large Enterprise has a very very complex uh sap system which has been customized over the years for all the different changes that happened to their business uh different business processes that crept in over the years and a whole host of other capabilities that maybe the you know the systems that came out in the first wave were not really designed to do those functions but then there was there was a concerted effort to make sure that they did perform and function at at a different level alog together than their original purpose so that made you know a lot of complexity creep into into these systems and today when when our clients are are trying to uh you know migrate to the s4a platform which is something that sap is mandating they're finding it very difficult to take all of those customizations and go up the stack without incurring tremendous expenses uh in Project costs and time and of course the talent that's required uh to get that accomplished so that that's you know one Trend that that we're seeing a lot and the other one is with all of these customized systems you could with a lot of effort and money could take them up the stack to S4 but then there's still the the issue of maintaining and managing it um and every time you know sap sends out a patch or or an upgrade there's so much testing and retesting that needs to be done of the custom functionality that this is becoming a real real issue uh for our clients uh and there you know clients are thinking about there has to be a way to to you know to get around this or there has to be a way to solve this and so that's where the the concept of Erp modernization comes in got it that's helpful and and actually we we spoke with one other leader in this space at a partner org and they they were talking to us about a customer story where their backlog from the transition is over 10 years long so getting this completely and that's just not that's not realistic on a horizon for the Mandate of how quickly things are needed to transfer into this into sp4 Hana or sa4 Hana so something has to be done and we have to look outside into other agile ways of solving problems what's what's stopping organizations from doing this where are you finding the roadblocks or hesitations on them from from expanding or tackling that backlog or looking at new new platforms of service how where are you finding that roadblocks currently right I I don't think there's you know the road I wouldn't call them roadblocks it's it's just it's just a a matter of getting educated on on the on the possibilities of using other Technologies to solve this particular problem if you think of a a regular AP or an oracle shop they're focused on how do I make this work within my construct right that's that's the the strategy that's always employed however it's not always uh you know you got to look Beyond um and I think things like gen Etc are making people think and look Beyond you know of course it's the job of of Consultants like me to to educate our clients and show them the art of the possible uh and of course a strong business case to adopt newer and uh you know better methodologies and approaches yeah there is a shift right there's almost a mandate of a shift of thinking as you know gen comes into our world but that they also the mandated shift of having to migrate from on Prem to Cloud there's there's ways that we can almost have these expansive view out moments or zoom out moments to say what are we doing here like what can we do a little bit differently from here on out and maybe I'm curious is that can you share an example of of something that you've you've experienced that's that's had a switch from Legacy into this new mindset approach yeah I was just going to say that that as much as we think change is is hard change is happening right people are clients are adopting new ways of doing things uh with old you know not not everything with old systems and everything they have already in place a great example is is an ex is an engagement a large engagement we're doing with a with a client in the medical devices uh field that is leveraging service now to modernize a number of processes that that today sit within two Behemoth SAP systems one is on the S4 platform and one isn't and you know that you know adds another can of worms to the whole picture but what we're doing is you know taking a lot of the uh the workflows and the approvals uh and things that you know sap was probably never built to to accomplish with where designing custom workflows and and and uh you know capabilities on the service now platform now what's happening because of that is a the the processes are are being simplified B they're using a very latest and greatest product like service now to do that and three while they've already invested in the service now platform the Richer experience and and the level of automation that that service now is affording uh to its clients and and stakeholders and employees that is just out of the world so you know when we talk about when service now automates the world to work that's actually happening and we make it happen every day for our clients that's a great point I think I think there's some interesting things in there that you mentioned a bit earlier or alluded to earlier on trying to kind of pigeon hole certain functionality in these Erp systems that they were never meant for like approvals like workflow and those are things that we just you know the platforms like service now just do so naturally so it doesn't make sense to try and chip away at that extensive backlog of items that shouldn't fit in that in that solution and and rather than try and push them into that solution take them into an area that it's a lot more agile a lot more easy to to provide that functionality that's exactly right exactly right now I I also like to to tap on this a bit too because sometimes it's we we get a little bit ingrained in the technology conversation but oftentimes it's a people in process conversation so I would imagine that a lot of these sap individuals are part of the organizations that you talk to in your customer worlds there's people that have been doing sap for decades and have hung their hats and careers on this platform so so how do you prefare teams for this large transition into these more modernized approaches without them feeling maybe a little bit guarded of you know taking some territory away or taking some ownership away right well that's an interesting question change is hard and and and change is uh you know uh difficult to to embrace however this time around we're actually taking a change that's simple to to uh to embrace and and uh and adopt to so let aaging a service now system or a workflow uh to do something that took people a lot more time in in Legacy systems or a lot more effort or took a lot of Cycles is now going to be done much simply on the simply on the service now platform and with a richer experience now when you want to convince people of of getting to a simpler way of doing things I think it's a lot easier than than my previous uh you know a few Decades of work where a more complex system was was put in and and there was a lot more change where the users had to really upgrade themselves to start using this new system that was being put in right this is the the reverse case now they can just go look at their mobile phones or could whatever I mean on their laptops wherever they're sitting from maybe at the beach and they can still do work uh you know in a very easy and automated fashion so I think there's an advantage here from a change management perspective that this change is easier and it's in in the right direction I appreciate that point of view I think I think that's a a nice distinguishing moment rather than rather than maybe historically where we've had to talk to them about maybe more complex processes or how the solution is going to be more complex this is actually a pretty nice experiential conversation to say things are actually going to be easier in your world if you come on to this modernized approach and if you extrapolate some of the things that don't need to be you know a pigeon hold way or the a legacy system and if you think about it just a layer deeper the the number of seamless Integrations the service now platform makes with a myriad of systems internal and external to our our clients environments and the user that that's actually you know working the workflow or creating a a work step or completing a workstep doesn't have to be concerned with any of that uh service now goes out and in and then get exchanges data between systems uh that is completely transparent to uh to all its users and and that's the beauty of of it all right there's there's so much that can happen by integrating service now with with the rest of the it environment and without anybody even needing to know about it and that that that creates an experience which is just unbeatable that yeah that's that's so true it's it's one of my favorite things to to talk about when when I'm speaking with customers and our executive briefing centers is that integration Hub layer can't be overlooked it's so pivotal in providing this whatever coin term you want to use system of Action System of Engagement but like we service now is the system of record for certain things but it it's never going to be the system of record for everything it doesn't well I guess I shouldn't say never but it doesn't necessarily never need to be the system of record for everything you've made a lot of your customers our customers have made a lot of investments in these platforms that have great recordkeeping functionality out there let's plug and play and use the where those records live but abstract that experiential layer and do the the kind of decision-making process in an easy in an easy workflow engine like service now and that's why service now is called the platform of platforms and it does deserve that that distinction perfect now you said workflow there which is probably our favorite word at at service now but i' I'd love for you to kind of maybe go a level deeper on how important workflow is in part of this process and even so what how is technology or what is technology doing to automate some of those steps that maybe historically hasn't been as seamless with not a non- workflow ENT or a non- workflow solution right so why don't I use an example to actually illustrate or answer your question one of the clients that we worked for uh needed uh an easier and simpler and faster way to help employees that were requesting to go on Parental leave or or maternity leave okay in the previous uh in the AIS situation if you if you apply for for any long-term leave you know parental or or or otherwise um there's a number of number of different areas and functions of the organization that will come together uh and collectively make that event or approval happen for for an employee you know you've got your own organization your your manager and your team that you work with you've got to be able to replace yourself for an extended period of time uh you've got to go out and and make sure that payroll and and other parts of that engine are are you know are appraised of it and changes are made uh to reflect those in in the time to come uh now that could be also linked to the a state maybe that that the employee stays in because a lot of that compensation may come from from the state as an FMLA plan there's HR that needs to to get involved and make sure all the approvals are in place and and all of the uh the things in the the changes in the system are made for that short period of or or the extended period of time that that the employees out so all of this you know start to end was was an ardus process and and it really took a long time for an employee to go get an answer back saying yes okay that's approved you can go out and again sometimes it's not always uh you know possible to uh to have the employee around when all of this has happened nature takes its own course and and a mom may you know be in labor faster than than your processes work right so it's not really an option sometimes so what we did was to to leverage service now to integrate with all of these different stakeholders and stakeholder systems uh and create a workflow that you know unbeknown to the employee could be you know could be initiated from a mobile device app that all the employee needed was I want to go from this date to that date um and once submit was spent uh was was was send was submitted all of the processes happened in in the background very very efficiently the only external parties uh that were involved were the ones that that may have taken a little longer than we wanted to but within the organization all the steps were completed very very quickly and something that took you know 15 days or 21 days for someone to to hear back would happen in a matter of hours even so that's the power of of getting uh you know a workflow that that seamlessly integrates with with everything in the background and comes back and and uh you know goes to the right approvals gets the right approvals takes it to the next step uh again does whatever is needed for uh for that step to happen and then to come back all the way to the employee and say it's all approved it's all good good luck with your uh with your next step so that is the power of of a workflow and I think you know this is just something that I wish a lot of our clients are still not there yet with the taking a lot of their processes uh to the right level of Automation and then the there's a reason for that it's it's a big uh initiative and there's a lot of different things that happen in an organization but you know you could chip away one by one at these processes with a platform like service now there's there's definitely a lot of benefit to that that's a that's a great example thank you for sharing it I think there's an important point in that as well or an important maybe another question is a followup to that is there was a lot of arms of the department that that that probably touched as this individual was going on family leave and you alluded to the fact that sometimes our processes are slower than the actual request is going to take to fulfill because of you know Legacy stuff that's in there or arduous manual efforts as part of it so when listeners are thinking about starting of tackling such a workflow or tackling a business problem like that how do how do you help them think about starting how do you help them thinking about talking to multiple different departments especially workflows that Branch you know outside of it outside of customer outside of HR that are are cross departmental that have to involve multiple different arms of the business how do you help them start when we go to a client some of the problems are already known right and and it's not it's not something that we we need to really educate the client on something that's happening in their organization what they're struggling with is how do I do this differently and how do I do this faster better and cheaper and what we do then is you know we really do show The Art of the possible I don't Goot to a client with with a bunch of slides on how things could work or what could be the the ideal State or the outcome of of our discussion here we actually collect information on you know details about a certain process that we could actually then go back quickly and and generate a demo instance in service now and actually show the process working now it may not be the the best uh and and you know the the most complete of of experiences but the client can then very well see on a service now instance or in a demo environment how something could be you know potentially automated how the experience could be made richer and again that faster better cheaper promise of of doing things Abby you're so right I I'm I'm thinking of this a little bit next on all the listeners in mind out there where might they where might they go to start on on such a transformational progress or process for themselves and the companies yeah that's a great question spenc and you know when we when we talk to our client stakeholders typically the personas that that we U speak to where a lot of process improvements uh around supply chain or around the manufacturing process or any other you know workflow that that actually is the the core work of the business um there's there's champions in in the business or there is sometimes a chief uh transformation officer whose sole job is to is to look for for opportunities uh within the way the company works the way the business works and to bring transformation and to bring Automation and and experiences to it so we' like to always identify uh a chief transformation officer or a champion within the business within HR it's it's uh quite simple actually if you're trying to transform an HR process the chro is is the Persona that that that we usually work with and they have pretty well laid out vision of of what they want to improve in their in their particular organization or the way their or works and the way they deliver HR as a service to their constituents which is the the employees of the company uh and then of course there's uh the it buyer which is the CI CTO organizations which for things like AI Ops and and things that are the nextg aiops driven operations in in in it Etc the CTO C are very good personas to be talking to that's perfect and I'm thinking for those in individuals out there that aren't in those positions or maybe don't have those relationships with their executive teams yet are looking to get them where might you advise them to to get the buy off to to start that initiation I think it's very important to find a champion right whether whether the champion exists today as a champion or whether you have conversations and along the way they you know the light bulbs go off and and they become a champion uh it's it's really that that depends on how fortunate you are with uh with your client conversations but I think when you come to a client with with a with a very strong value proposition I think most most clients will will either take it up the chain uh or perhaps have have the wherewithal and and the budget and the the ability to go start on a project to to show value and then of course uh then it expands from there yeah I think I think you're right that leadership engagement and involvement and awareness and buy off is always pivotal to success especially as your communicating metrics and communicating the little Milestones that you're reaching along the way that can help broadcast that message across the rest of the York right and you know one other thing I'll say is companies like service now and others have been doing such a great job of uh bringing together personas that in the sea suite and and and kind of showing them the art of the possible across various forums and I you know I speak at those some of those on a regular basis we're going to have knowledge uh next week in Vegas which is another way to get a lot of Executives in a room and and show them the power of of the platform that has really heightened the desire I would say for for sea level Executives to uh you know partake in that in that digital Revolution that service now is trying to create and really benefit from it so that's helping a lot too absolutely I'm looking forward to that knowledge event as well I look forward to seeing you there Abby yeah so as as Cloud Solutions become more prevalent as platforms become more prevalent as gen becomes more prevalent and Technology further advances how do you envision the future of Erp systems evolving in the next fiveish 10ish years I I'd always like to answer this question with you know how can we make things better and faster to me that Quest is is unending for for every client and for for every Product Company that's trying to help clients with with that issue I would like the ideal future state for me would be to see transformation happening in an integrated fashion across all the different components and Departments of a company uh just like it it happened with with sap coming together and and you know Des siloing the organization if you will now the set the stage is is set for Des siloing The Experience layer and Des siloing the uh just the automation across the Enterprise right so uh it's not just about automating it and its ticketing and all of that it's not just about automating HR processes but actually making a holistic enterprise-wide uh you know automation strategy uh and a platform that can that and that I think that that definitely is is the future and when we when I look inwards uh at a partner like ourselves where are we trying to Excel and in what are we trying to show value if we can you know take uh Serv a platform like service now and leverage its genni capabilities and and truly make things faster and better for clients uh not just the The Experience ler but also the mechanics of developing custom workflows for instance right look at the Poss abity of of leveraging jni to create custom workflows in a much faster fashion once we' FedEd the input of the of the AIS and the 2B process and then just spending know 20% of the time to look at what tweaks we need to do and how to improve the you know the the automatically generated code for a workflow to me that is a tremendous uh step in the in the in the next iteration of of digital transformation which then accelerates the ability we have to take this these Concepts to various parts of the organization and truly achieve that organization wide automation that I just talked about beautifully said I don't think there's anything more to say on that that was that was perfectly put Obby I appreciate your vision well thank you so much for joining us today it's been quite expansive at least on my part I'm venturing to guess our our listeners probably feel the same I really appreciate your time Obby and of course your your wealth of wisdom thank you so much well thank you Spencer thanks for having me and this is as you could probably tell my one of my favorite topics to talk about I look forward to seeing you and and a ton of our our clients and and uh you know Partners at knowledge next week until then have a have a great week beautiful thank you to all of our listeners out there thank you so much for joining us if you like what you heard today please give us a share tune back in for the next episode and we'll see you on the next one [Music]