all right welcome everyone my name is shafath Sayad and I'm with service now and we're going to go ahead and get this webinar started this is the live on service now webinar on hsbc's legal transformation Journey uh with service now and deoe I am your host shafat Sayad and I'm with uh service now this webinar is being recorded and we'd also like to point out that uh some of the speakers may talk about future capabilities and this is our Safe Harbor statement saying that things may change in the future we encourage you to catch future webinars here on live on service now you can scan this QR code and a link will be provided in the chat window we have some housekeeping uh uh items that I'd like to uh point out to you firstly we will save time at the end of this webinar for a Q&A session we encourage you to use the Q&A button on the bottom of your screen to post questions that way we can keep track of them um the chat window tends to scroll so the Q&A button is the best way to post your questions and we will address them at the end this uh webinar will be available on the um Community website where you uh registered for this so we encourage you to come back and watch this again and after the event you'll be prompted to fill out a short survey and we really ask you to please fill that out so that we can um get feedback and hear from you on how we're doing and how we can improve these sessions throughout this webinar um the speakers will be talking about a service now product called service now Legal Service delivery also known as LSD for short and this uh product is really designed for the needs of legal departments within corporate uh legal teams and it helps um Drive uh Better Business outcomes through efficient legal operations now I'd like to introduce the speakers uh we have a great uh Team of speakers um starting with Andy Burton who is group vice president of legal operations uh for service for service now having served similar roles previously at American Express and AIG Andy and his team oversee the operations of service now legal the legal function and act as customer zero for the service now Legal Service delivery product Ben een is head of legal change and Innovation at HSBC he spent 25 years in the financial industry as a transformational leader at both JP Morgan and Barkley's before joining HS BC at the end of 22 2022 Ben is responsible for strategy and execution of the transformation of hsbc's legal department and we have Tom birdy who is director in deo's legal management consulting practice and has over 17 years of experience leading transformation in the legal sector holding leadership roles in law firms alsp and Consulting organizations Tom manages deoe legal technology Consulting team and leads the collaboration with service now on Legal Service delivery across Amia and with that I will hand it over to Tom who will be the moderator for this session thanks very much shath and um thanks Ben and Andy for being here um I think typically um in this sort of webinar scenario and I'm sure we've all seen lots of them you get to hear about a a new implementation or the perspective of someone who's been using a product for a long period of time and I think what's really nice today is that we've got Andy and Ben two ends of the spectrum um Andy is customer zero and has sort of led development of LSD and used it internally within service now um and can talk about longer term benefits you know whether adoption becomes easy after a period and Ben can tell the story about how how a large legal function like um that within HSBC sort of Gears itself up and starts the process towards making this sort of change um so maybe before we dive into technology um maybe Ben starting with you and and sort of stepping back and saying well what do you think about the sort of role of the COO function change within the legal practice how does that fit in it's a really really really good good question Tom to to kick us off and and thanks for thanks for having me here to talk about this topic today one that um um I me mened yesterday is actually one of my favorite topics at the moment so so in terms of in terms of what's the role of coo and the change function and the broader um legal operations function in in um vision and and Technology here is is is actually is actually um I see it as twofold in an organization such as HSBC one is is is very much Bridging the Gap and what what I mean there is is that we are a part of U of A big firm um and and Bridging the Gap between between the needs of the legal department um to do its job and to do its job well and be a best-in class with the needs of a firm uh which which also has has a desire to have similar outcomes but often speak in very different language and often speak it in a very different way and and let's not forget that my role then is very much to make it happen right to to to turn it from a vision into reality and and Tom if if I may um uh I've got I've got a little bit of a um a change in position of of something that I thought I'd share with everyone which is for many years anyone who's heard me talk has heard me talk about the vision of you're creating a house you're creating a house with great foundations um you need to do a lot of work a lot of work and convince people that you need to do a lot of work before the house is built around the foundations around around um how to create something that is going to last for a long time and all the right things and right towards the end you see the house come up and that's what happens that's what happens um in house building but I've changed my view I've changed my view and I've corrected myself because the more I look at our strategy the more I look at um technology and and the future of technology and legal technology the more I realize that what we're actually trying to do is create a first class wing of a hotel and what I mean there is is you know you can't do something fundamentally different to the rest of the hotel your success comes in the success of the whole hotel right I I I always joke to say you get the benefits of of Cheaper carpets if everyone's doing the same right um but but you know what I mean is what I mean is you need to understand the aims of the of everywhere are you a cheap and cheerful um Airbnb or are you a luxury five star um hotel and by having that that translation and Bridging the Gap that I've been talking about um becomes a lot more straightforward and actually actually making it happen become straightforward when everyone across all wings of the hotel um is is um is on the same page and so so that Vision everyone in the hotel understanding that vision and then us making it happen for legal for legal users and and as a part of the business is for me what makes a really successful outcome then I'm going to Rack my brains to try and build on the the hotel and energy now but Andy Andy first off buy me some time same question in terms of the sort of role of legal Ops and how core it is to the legal function success yeah for sure um great Ben and I have talked at length about the hotel the house I love it's great it makes total sense to me um yeah so legal operations when I think back to when I kind of started to work in legal Ops at previous companies legal Ops was definitely a thing um it was you know it kind of started life as as kind of ebilling and managing the finances and now where we are today um I think it's the best role in legal when you think of the change that is happening and the change that is coming we in legal operations are the ones who have the responsibility and the opportunity to help drive that change in the industry so my vision for legal Ops is that we are the drivers of change we are the ultimate enablers of a legal function working that most efficiently most efficient way possible um I think it's the business of law our general counselor Ross Elmer talks to me about that all the time we are we are the business team within the legal function um and I could not I can't think of a more exciting time to be in the legal industry whether you're in legal operation in the legal operations team or if you're an attorney or a lawyer or a legal professional who's kind of thinking about legal Ops and you want to help that legal operations team if you are if you are a lawyer or a paralal or legal professional I would you really encourage you to play around with the things that legal Ops gets involved in because legal operations is going to be the ultimate Force to drive change in the legal industry and I'll finish by saying this folks might sit down I talk a lot to customers of service now into PE in a legal app space folks often say well yeah we've heard this before right we've heard that legal is going to change and has the change really happened I think we have changed um but let's be really clear if we don't change someone is going to change the industry for us and we should we we should be want to be at the front of that change and Lead that change um because with the the advances of Technology the advances of of the platform like things like service now it is absolutely different what we've heard before so in summary the business of law it's so exciting for us we can be kind of the career elevators uh and the team to really push on change in the industry and I couldn't be more excit excited about that and thanks Andy and I think Ben just picking up on a point you made there about connectors with the business yeah I think it sort of pulls in your point as well Andy the one Trend we see and maybe the question is well why haven't legal functions transformed um we've all been I think in our intros listed many tens of years worth of experience we've all been plugging away at this for a while why hasn't it happened um I think part of that is down to a legal perspective that different legal has to be different we need different tools we need specialist tools and that's true in some cases but it has meant that legal has been plowing a a sort of lonely Furrow in terms of technology and I think that connection into the business tools like service now we're starting to see the rise of a more sort of Enterprise approach to technology so it's not different tools for different functions it's maybe more of a common platform with different flavors for different parts of the business um and look moving on to technology um and you know looking at service now Andy as the longest serving user um you know one of the challenges that we talk to with lots and lots of clients is conceptually I buy work intake that's great but what really is the case for change what are the benefits that I will see over several years and and you must be best place to give us a view on it yeah for sure I I think back and I tell a story often it's it's day two of my job at service now I've been here for nearly five years now it was day two and the general Council said Andy I don't know what is going on in a certain part of the organization in our legal team and that's a huge problem okay every year leading legal operations team like I have I have the same conversation when it comes to financial planning GS and they need more headcount I need more money for outside Council we have a conversation we say well why you know what's going on well we're really busy okay I get you busy but what are you busy actually on well I'm not really sure about what I'm busy are I just know I'm really really busy um and of course the teams are busy right they are being they're working extremely hard especially if you're in a kind of growth mindset for a company but the fact is this not understanding and not really getting a full picture of the work we're being asked to do as a legal function is where we really needed to start um it's not okay anymore to say I'm busy but I don't have a good enough details to be informed in terms of what actually is that we're working on where's the work coming from who's doing it how long does it take all very simple kind of operational areas to measure but simply we could not do that without a without a platform like the legal services delivery and so that's where we started um and we kind of moved on from there as as we went through the the releases and the and the kind of implementation and yes Tom you mentioned the front door right it's the intake the engagement point for Eagle that's only one very very small part of it you've got to think about the legal professionals doing the work how can how can they do their work more efficiently um and and more quickly and honestly how can they have a better experience and that's where the LSD comes in Council workspace I can go in I can see what work is a priority I can have you know a council assist artificial intelligence technology is helping me assisting me insert knowledge articles insert you know um previous pieces of advice that may have been given to help me Elevate as a legal professional so it's the ultimate career elevator and I'll I'll say one more thing and I'll pause and show Ben wants to chime in if you are in legal operations or you are a legal professional listening to this and you're kind of thinking well is that really going to help me or is that really going to happen yes guys it's happening okay you've seen all sorts of kind of co-pilot technology that's coming down kind of down through releases it's there we shouldn't be afraid of it it's a career elevator it can make us all work you know a lot better um so pause there Tom sure Ben's got that's perfect Ben how does that how's that land for you yeah I mean I mean um I was nodding all the way through there um and you know we we are at an earlier stage of our of our um um deployment so we we haven't realized all those benefits yet however those are the benefits that that we are looking to realize what I would what I would add is is that you know the role of the legal professional is evolving the demands on the legal professional is evolving and we have to be able to support that so the demands coming from our business um are for all the things all the things that Andy just listed however however if you think about it as therefore I'm going to count the number number of contracts we do and do x y and Zed with that data that is such a tiny tiny component of the capability of having front door um work intake workflow through the system Etc what we're trying to do and what the demands on our department is is that um the legal profession is is evolving we're being asked a business partner more rather than do legal stuff how can we demonstrate that how can we how can we talk in the same language so if we're being asked a business partner then then um what we're saying there is that increasingly our lawyers are being asked to be on a um as part of a deal call with a compliance partner next to them with a risk partner they should all be speaking the same language one technology across everybody um uh really really helps that being able to then articulate that do you do you know what the demand of this legal service has decreased but the but but the demand of this legal service is increasing um exponentially being able to demonstrate that allows us to proactively manage manage our legal services in the way that Andy described around around running it like a business so okay we have more demand in this space do we need more training for our lawyers do we need to increase the number of lawyers looking at that particular type of business or that particular type of advice if we're getting that increase in in in advice how do we across all the jurisdictions that that that we are live in today see that across the globe and support people in in doing that it's by everyone operating off of one system and one approach in a way that the firm is doing so so so absolutely absolutely all the things that Andy said and and it's understanding the evolution of the expectations on the legal department as a whole have been able to respond to that and be more be more live in in our response it's not just about protecting the bank we'll always need to protect the bank but it's about business partnering and the way we service our business as well and then and then then what what I would say is the way that something like the legal service delivery module is different is that is that the firm will say so workflow is workflow why are you why are you different we know in the legal profession we know as legal operations experts there is differences but if we can talk the same language of something like service now with with with with the nuances of a legal service delivery module it works both ways and then separately Andy touched on it but this is a really really important point the user experience needs to be um right right front and center for everything we do so whether that is a business person who's interacting with us whether that is a client interacting with us whether that is um a legal professional a paralal um a legal operations expert operating need it needs to be a good user experience so you have to be able to pick an eco system an approach where you can where you can um keep the minimum number of of TAPS through a system where you can integrate where you can do all of those things that we expect in our personal life we expect that to happen on our phone and you need that to happen on on on the applications that that you're at at work as well so that's where we think differently to say to say um um you know what am I really responding to when it comes to a tech deployment I'm I'm I'm responding to the changes in the business demand I'm I'm responding to a firmwide strategy and I'm responding to a real user experience and a module that's really going to cater for the needs of all of those in one go I love that Tom you man if I just just I'm sorry I don't to take us off the talk that's is so good Ben like you just teed up it's great and there's a question in the chat that I really want to answer because I think it relates to it so what what Ben touched on about the ecosystem so our vision the user experience has been you know everyone who uses a certain online shop shopping um system not going to say the name um we use it because it's easy right it's not necessarily it's necessarily always cheaper it's easy it's a clicker it's a few clicks and our vision for the legal services delivery has always been but we're getting certainly much closer to it now has always been to create that seamless easy light touch um kind of experience and it's a great question that came in the chat from Alexander around touching upon what I said before about understanding the work with but how do you do that without creating more burden for busy people it's such a good question the biggest learning for us has been for me personally has always been change management and I say that because I'm sure Ben you've experienced this in your career we know how important change management is but we still didn't quite get it right at the very beginning um and as we've worked through we've realize that change management is so key you've got to help folks understand that they change the use a technology platform is going to help them so we might say the way of engaging legal through email is not very efficient but the the request might say yeah it's that easy right I can just type you an email I can hit send I can walk away so the way we've designed the LSD and what's available to you in the LSD is that front door you can design it and deploy it's extremely easy to um to select certain options to replace that the need of sending one two three or four lengthy emails you understand you know the nature of the people who are asking you know what work they're asking legal to do and then fast forward to where we are now it's way more advanced than this so say Ben goes into the LSD the LSD knows it's Ben knows that last week Ben requested uh an NDA a order form a master contract or help from the corporate legal team it's able to then prompt him and guide him and say hey looks like you made a similar request this last week is it the same type of request yes no so as I'm like happy to show you more when we you know happy to connect and and get into the details but it's very intuitive and that use experience is key sorry Tom didn't mean to take us off go for it passion is good um I SP two two points to draw out one the data and and the sort of work intake and that that data just the power of that can't be underestimated um being able to have you know we hear this from being able to have conversations with your internal business customers Based on data it becomes an objective conversation I can do more of this if you do less of this it's it's very very much more productive sat on the same side of the desk rather than a business challenge to do more and do it faster and a legal response but I'm busy and you're overloading me so it becomes a much more collaborative creates a more collaborative conversation and another thing we're hearing is that work intake capturing the work at point of receipt is a fabulous enabler for all sorts of other changes relying on lawyers to correctly rout work through to shared services maybe drive automation prompt for self-service it's very hard if your the requests coming into legal com to a number of individuals if they're coming into a common place and you can automate some of that allocation it just becomes a force multiplier for all all the other initiatives you're trying to employ um so powerful and maybe moving on I think so Ben you know having made the decision you know you're convinced you know with the sort of legal Ops background how do you convince a large complex complicated organization like HSBC legal to go along with you yeah yeah it's a good I'm going to make it sound so easy now right because I can give a perfect answer but but but look look the reality is right if I if I may Tom I'm going to turn the question around a little right to to to say to say where where have I and where have I've seen organizations make mistakes in the past to start with which is you see some awesome Tech and you go let's implement it right or you build a business case at the center on a whiteboard based on things that you think which you prob probably gut feel largely right but you do that at at what I call at the center or you look for a single Solution that's going to solve everything right so so so if instead you turn it around and you start by saying what's the problem that we want to solve here right right is there a problem that we're trying to solve right and and and actually we say okay so in the example look we spend too much time on email or we have repeat queries coming in all the time or or or actually actually you know they're our problems when we engage with a business the business say want better transparency of where legal spend goes you know we or or another one that we often got was was um you know we don't use multiple tools or systems depending on query types um even even to the earlier Point um that Andy made we're bored of entering too much data which means I don't even get to get to the start point right then if you if you've sort that out then what what you're actually doing is you're building a business case for Collective change right you're building a business case for what our business partners want to see in line with our strategy and actually actually more than a tech business case it helps on process it helps on aligning what the legal strategy is as a whole because you start to understand more the demands of of of of your business um and and as I say the way we have to think differently from the ways that we have in the parties you put user experience at the heart of every conversation the things that we would expect of uh um o of the apps or ways we operate outside of work should be the same expectation um when we come in now there is a challenge there Tom right there which is which is we don't always know what all the problems are right in an organiz organization like HSBC due to the size or or um or we worry that that um you know the strategy or technology becomes outdated very quickly you know and and so so you kind of wrangle through these right but but if you are solving your own genuine problems your business's genuine problems and and you you're um you're talking collectively then actually actually maybe it doesn't matter too much because you're improving all the time you're optimizing all the time you know you know um I I do I do remember I'm going to share with you um I I was once approached to say why do we make four changes a year to our systems you know we seem to be getting emails for uat all the time and we make changes to the system and my response was how often do you have to update your iPhone or how much do you have to update your Android oh that's different is it is it is it different right because actually isn't it much better that we make changes all the time and we move to that environment so so much of this is cultural shift as well and if we if we can get people into that operating model of do you know what we went live you didn't like that we tweaked it a week later actually you didn't like that we changed that we've rooted that differently the rooting tables we can do on you know very very quickly and change X Y and Z all of a sudden they're a part of it and the battle the battle is is won so often by people being a part of it so what I would say is you you have to build in some Flex here right right um you've got to be able to course correct because when you start out you're not going to get it right and when you start out you're doing a lot on a whiteboard right and so and so you're envisaging it and when it happens you then go right you know what actually we need to to evolve this or do it a bit differently and as long as we say that's okay we're going to make changes as we go we know what the end state looks like we know the problems we're trying to say but we're going to course correct along the way actually actually um know the business case stands up for itself just got to make sure we actually deliver we don't want a project that rolls forever make sure that you you execute make sure that the um people can feel the benefits and that they feel the benefits that they really really want and then then as I say it really does become a bit of a no-brain Ben I couldn't agree more you almost every project you start out to try and come up with a perfect design heaven forbid lawyers are more inclined towards coming up with a perfect design in the first place the only thing you can be certain of at that point is that it will be partially wrong so building that mindset that we are going to course correct it's going to be iterative we'll learn as we go we're maturing as an organization in terms of what we can digest and what we need I think if you can embed that mindset it buys a whole lot of forgiveness and one thing I'd add and know and I can see all three of us wanting to chime in only because it's that kind of kind of healthy healthy debate but but but but you know you know what sometimes if people haven't been on this journey for any reason right trying to explain what good looks like is not easy right because because you're explaining something theoretical right and so so so if you go live in a in a in a in a small way and you start to go look look look that's what good looks like and then people go oh I really want to wna want to see that so so we we went live in November with certain areas and what I've now seen at our senior level is our senior execs actually using the Mi um as part of a demo at xco to give updates that that changes the dynamic right it changes the dynamic um from from I don't think we'll ever need it to how do I get that right and and and and you know so it's it's absolutely an an evolution but if we' have tried to go big bang we'd have got it we would have got it wrong to start with so so so there's definitely there's definitely an evolution as you go along yeah just add time I think that and it's very similar to how we approach that kind of it approach right you you I have the our CIO always tells me Andy you learn the most about a car when it's on the road not when it's in the garage being worked on being tinkered on deploy technology learn as you go along and that's a little bit uncomfortable for lawyers right we' like to have everything down to the like you know everything down to perfect in terms of process maps and things like that I think the I'm just going to tie it back to one of the questions in the chat around that there's a question around how folks can sometimes struggle with core taxonomy and submit his findes in the correct form this is what Ben and I are saying right we there's no Silver Bullet from day one you can't solve all your problems in day one right and that's okay we had a similar challenge we we' have certain forms and intake kind of processes we iterated we made them super simple so that it literally a minute to complete the form or you the request that meant that our reporting might not be as perfect as we wanted it from day day three day four but that was okay we didn't have any reporting before so we''re making progress we're iterating and learning as we go um so yeah great great points B and and Andy how are you driving adoption um surely in an organization like service now it's your own product that's Nob brainer right yeah Enterprise technology company right yeah yeah so I think we've we've it's been it's been a journey honestly we've yes there is an absolute expectation that we develop software for companies therefore we should use our own technology and we do and we are serious about it we have a now on now initiative which is service now on service now now on now um but again right that didn't mean that we could deploy technology that wasn't helpful to people and wasn't easy to use because you know you're darn right with hear about it if people don't like it um I always think about about kind of adoption in in in this sense really help understand people of as to why it's going to help so if you're engaging legal for help explain and help folks understand why this is going to help them then and understand the Persona then it's a legal professional understand and help the legal professional understand how this technology is going to help them um I'm very lucky in that we have a general councel who is very forward thinking um and wants to adopt technology to work better but it's a constant um it's a constant task right Tom and and Ben it's it's not something you can deliver and walk away from you've got to keep investing in it and keep focusing on as to why it's going to help people um but I promise you that once you once you start to use this a system like the legal services delivery and once folks understand the value it brings they will want to get more and more involved in it especially if you're a legal professional because it's going to elevate their career so yeah that's my thoughts on just the sort of data again we come back to data so often and I think it's a you know it's a it's not a growing Trend it it's something it's an element of the way a legal function is managed that is becoming more and more critical and what you described there Ben is almost perfect scenario you've got a bit of push initially to get everyone bought in you know get your early Champions using the system if you can start to introduce that data into decision- making into management um you know committee meetings that sort of thing all of a sudden the value of it becomes um apparent and you move from a push you know here's a good idea how about we introduce this tool to improve work intake to a poll because I can see the benefit and as an individual lawyer Andy you've got you know everyone wants to achieve competitive people trying to do well all of a sudden you can see how your team your performance is perceived you can start to start to focus on driving improvement whereas without any data we try lots of things are we getting any better right you yeah I mean just real quick you're you're making assumptions okay you're without the data um and I tell a story a previous employer there was a technology provider who was offering a solution around um certain technology and we asked the question how many or how much do as a percentage of our work in a week or a month focuses on that type of work which the technology was saying could could solve and no one knew if you don't know that if you don't start to understand the foundation of the house the of the hotel first right I don't think you're going to be successful you've got to understand at least at a basic level what it is we're being asked to do and then fast forward to where we are today our general Council sends out a weekend email every week and it's a summary of all the great work that um that he sees going on across the organization it's like a thank you to the team he doesn't have to reach out to Practice Group Leaders to get that information it's all in his GC dashboard he can see what folks are working on and amazing value we're bringing and then lastly when he's in the cweet meeting or when our Practice Group Leaders or when I'm in operational meetings and we hear things like legal or a bottleneck it's being slowed down by legal we can actually say actually no I can show you it's not legal or yeah you're right is legal and let me go and you know help unblock that kind of the blocker so extremely powerful like data is undoubtedly the new oil in the world like no doubt no doubt about it and and Tom I would I would add add to that if I may just to say look it it's not a solution in itself right what it is what it is is it gives you all the tools for the right conversations right right so so you know so so often people will say say look there's once we've implemented this then actually life gets better around that actually what we found is it's highlighting all sorts of things for us to have the follow-up conversation we get a bunch of stuff that's not legal work why why why do we you know why do we do that actually can we educate our business or or can we just push back or can we say no are we too nice and friendly or or actually actually um no you know there's a there's a disconnect on on the business side from what the senior business person thinks we do versus what we're actually getting on a on a day-to-day basis or when somebody asks us to get a second opinion or or things like that that disconnect um um is is is really useful so so being able to then um as Aly described put the data on the table to say this is what is showing us now let's talk about some um some options and let's talk about about the dialogue off the back of it I think I think it's is really really interesting yeah and Alexander thanks for the extra question and Andy did you want to pick that one up yeah two questions in the chat which I think are actually relevant to this point of the conversation so um the Al's question around how do you spend can you spend more time on the acttion on the how and how it works in the back end yes so the initial kind of um scope in deployment was driven by legal operations yes you need a DT or it we call it DT at service now it team to help you deploy the technology once it's deployed once you get to a fairly mature State um you might want to have legal operations folks with the kind of it experience in your team it's really up to you the way that we route work specifically your question around how does it um how does it work on the back end is it loyers if not lawyers it's we have a legal team a legal operations team we have certain workflows which requests are automatically routed to the relevant Legal Professional who does the work we have some workflows which come to a calized place for a triage first but a lot of our work goes automatically um based on the logic we've built in the system so hopefully hopefully that helps um and and and Andy I'd add to that to say and that's completely your choice right right as in as in so so so us here we choose what type of query type is an auto root to a certain group what type of query type goes directly to a lawyer so so actually based on based on those rules you can you can be as you can make whichever logical decisions you want and build in that way really really good point Ben like really important clarification right it's up to you you can configure you can customize how you see fit to you know Ben and I use the system in different ways Ben's working at a financial services company I'm working at a technology company absolutely configurable yes and and one other thing we see um in some implementations is looking at how work is rooted to third party I there obviously focus on controlling external spend you can at the point of intake start to triage and automatically assess and see what should maybe root direct through to a third party so you've got the sort of you know it could be internal lawyers your shared services and external parties all sort of plugged into the same front end um Ben sort of summarizing some of what you've learned on the on the sort of recent experience um for just be anything else you'd call out um yeah so so obviously I've majored a lot of my conversation around around um the enterprise-wide approach and and what's been what's been interesting when when um yourself Tom and myself and Andy bit um sort of been been chat chat a lot about these type of topics has actually been it's actually been um so from a organization like HSBC um utilizing enterprise-wide um technology and taking an approach which is very specific to legal but but utilizing that what it really does as well is is we've seen we've seen the added benefit of this our sphere of influence within the firm um grow so so you know rather than everything we do looking at legal Tech and looking at in isolation and and therefore operating within our house within our house um um and and you know influencing only the future of our house actually sitting sitting at bigger tables and being able to influence technology decisions for the firm now now um I'm not laying down what we do um if it was just the house but that ability that that that that being part of a broader conversation you know it really helps because if you think about the future not just now but you think about the future where do you want to get to there will be a time when when when surely you want everybody super connected in one one um sort of web within your firm and so actually being right at the Forefront of those conversations about how you would do that um and starting to talk to your businesses about about do we do we want a front end where where where where they you know operate because we assume our businesses know when to come to legal and so so so the point is you you get to a point where when you're talking geni when you're talking about future Tech that actually being a part of the enterprise-wide solution gives you a real ability to have certain an influence of sphere um sphere of influence I probably hadn't thought about that when I first started out but I've seen that in motion and actually actually it puts us in in a in a really really um good position and helps helps our our board members when they're sitting at board as well because they're talking the same language as everyone else as well so there's there's definitely a point there Tom which maybe we didn't start out thinking would be a benefit but have learned along the way yeah so front foot engagement with legal rather than being being reactive um and look we've got some good questions coming through so we'll just weave them in I know Andy some of these you're putting your hand out for dive in yes so there was a question I think that actually got me to answer around well maybe a statement around ji just similar to the question just asked Ben I didn't realize how deploying LSD was going to be so important for grounding for what we want to do with the whole generative AI piece uh I now realize how important that is so real quick our kind of initial step into the Gen space is the LSD has contract management functionality you have simple contracts we have a new product called CM Pro which can be used with the LSD our first kind of generative AI you know kind of test if you like is around assisted review for contracts so real quick contract comes in or statement comes in it's been Redlin it's been proposals made by the other party um instead of a human doing the first review the first review is done by the technology it recognizes there's a red line and it proposes a response based on your accepted positions that is not in production yet we are we we we have a big knowledge event and and clock in May where we're going to be showing what we've done so far but that's really exciting um just yeah I T hit two questions do we provide onboarding and training for in-house teams we do we have a an entire kind of product team which shaf is part of we have a solution Consultants team who help uh customers have deployed things successfully and Andrea I happy as customer zero to spend time you any of your teams to talk more about that um so yes we do support folks in that way and then really quickly and I'll I'll stop Whitney question around how does the um you know how can the LSD provide a seamless experience between legal partners and their business clients um within a larger legal department Whitney this is what the LSD is all about such a great question it's all about the you have different kind of components of the LSD it's the front door the intake and then it's the legal professional who Works in what we call legal council Center you have the ability to collaborate on requests and matters you can add watches um you can have conversations you can amend documents and track it between each other there is a whole part that you I think would would love to see uh and we should get you a a full demonstration because it's very powerful for that collaboration piece Tom I was supposed to pick up on the Gen point I think it's right the found is absolutely key um I think more and more whilst we have the sort of furor around Jedi and the hype we'll see its true application practical and pragmatic as part of existing tools it will just turbocharge and enable those rather than as more Standalone proofs of concept that we're seeing at the moment um I don't know Ben I know you as a a sort of you know fiction AO technology would be looking at J do you have a perspective on that I I I do what what I think's really interesting Tom is is when I when I look at um um so gen gen right right no let me take take a step back AI has been around for years right and and and so so you know I've seen I've seen lots of use cases often in um Standalone um rather than embedded so so so whether whether it's maybe a um a a a regulatory contract renegotiation right there's some real strong use cases to use it um to remove a lot of the manual element right and and so so I've seen that used to varying degrees of success some not so some some some um well done Etc what what I would say is the way that that we're thinking about it the way we talk talk with with other people about it is Gen will undoubtly become an extra tool in the box right um as opposed to like wiping everything out right you know it's we're not looking at it at the moment as as a tool that will say it's going to automate everything we do right because because that would presuppose that that everything we do is possible to automate whereas actually I think that um that you know what we want to do is is assist humans in some of the decision makings right and this is you know real time thinking not not not um absolutely locked down but what I would say is what I'd say is that that then then you think about it in a theoretical sense and say we're going to add it to our toolbox right so so as a as a as as an organization we'll investigate we'll we we'll look at it more we we look at how we do it we look at how we partnered um with people to do it Etc but then but then when you then start to say well where would we look look at it in all the use cases that I start to see them come across my desk I kind of sit there and go do you know what if we had a you know knockout contract management system if you have a a awesome workflow if you had if you did some process process optimization you'd remove all of that right right now now now and actually actually we could go a long way to fixing use cases before we need to get to Geno right and so so I'm not there's absolutely a place for it's absolutely going to be a part of the Tet but but you know where um a lot of the debates I join around gen I tend to start in contract management discussions and actually actually when you talk to people it's because they have a problem with contract management they're not in an optimal contract management position to start with and then talk about um gen beyond that so I absolutely think there's a place for it Tom um and and we are we are you know looking at it investigating uh however however um um it's an additional tool to some other great tools yeah it's it's a it's the cherry on the cake um but the Cake's quite important just basic Ai and process and common process common standards get you an awful long way um Andy your your comment on um redlining has generated some interest do you want to elaborate there are a few questions in there yeah for sure I I just to right I just agree wholeheartly with what B is saying right AI has been around for a while um and I think this is why we're so excited about the LSD is a platform play the ls the legal service delivery is not a point solution okay it's a whole platform that is in a certain position now and in one year's time and in two years time it's going to be even better um and so platform play not a point solution yes so okay just Cindy's question great question this is a POC that we're doing okay it's not in production yet we're planning on using it for May and we're planning on showing our progress in May at the knowledge on an clock um the way it works is we're using a large language model and the large language model has been is being F tuned to give responses based on our Playbook so what Cindy raises as a spot on it's around Playbook which captures our acceptable positions cly we're not yet at the stage where the automatic updating of the Playbook we're not there yet we need to find shun at first so that we're comfortable with the responses that it's giving based on the Playbook um and so like I said work in progress and happy talk talk more about that um but hopefully that helps um maybe just picking up one um Jason's um made a point that I talked about with him recently and um Jason I hope you don't mind me referencing that you work at Royal Ma and one of the first implementers and users of the solution and I think Jason's point is um that they tied the the sort of knowledge articles to the form intakes and did some analysis on well what's the value we're getting from the effort we invest in creating knowledge articles um yeah and quite startling fact is that 90% of people who reviewed knowledge articles did not then go on to submit a request which just gives some sense to the the way LSD actually drives a real return on investment in that knowledge um which often languishes in you know not necessarily draws but um file shares isn't really used so that's incredibly powerful and than you for mentioning Tom can I just can I piggy back on that thanks Jason that's such a good point and like what amazing when people say hey how much is the license cost you how much is the is the cost of this platform wow 90% of folks looking at those knowledge articles then did not need to engage legal that's a huge cost saving huge value statement Jason we did something similar not not exactly the same but we had a certain area of the team that by deploying the LSD we were able to deflect over 30 30% 30 30% of work there was going to a a certain part of legal that did not need legal engagement not quite the same as just go read the kind of the knowledge article it was more of a deflection to use certain certain standard positions uh and maybe to engage other parts of the organization but I mean huge value driver right Tom like that's where you get your money back for sure it it takes a while and I'm sure Ben you haven't deflected 30% of requests Straight Out The Gate but it's the power is there and it's an iterative process it is and and and there's also there's um you know I touched on the cultural piece right there's a there's a there's a there's a cultural acceptance around loading knowledge items as well right right which is which is you know people people are nervous people people are nervous about about providing something where if there isn't a human touch point and and you can just get an answer and I think that comes in time that comes in time right yeah as as people start to see that so so actually if you are providing the same template 10 times a day and then then then put the template in in in the knowledge but you know it's not always been been been the way that people operate and so you can't change that overnight so o over time and encouragement that gets better and actually actually um and I'm sure I'm sure actually this it was about April last year I I saw um Jason talk about Royal m deployment which actually was really really helpful in in us making our final decision so so so thank you Jason and and I'm hoping then this this a year further on I'll be quoting 90% as well fabulous um but look I'm conscious we're we're we're running close on time I suppose looking ahead um Andy what what's the vision for LSD so the the vision and the kind of the mission is for us to so okay real quick story last summer so I'm from the UK originally but I've lived in the US for nearly almost eight years now and I last summer came back to the UK and Europe and spent a lot of time with customers and really listen to what folks needed from a platform like the LSD and it was amazing and they all kind of common theme was having to buy separate Point Solutions is an absolute killer for an organization especially for legal because we're so constrained budget wise so the vision for us is that we're going to provide a more complete ecosystem a more complete solution for requests matter management contracting um yes you we're not going to necessarily go into ecovery at a huge scale and things like that but LSD is absolutely a more complete solution um and so that's the vision I think we'll already well in the way there adding the kind of AI component so it's the platform place so yeah that's what I'd say and I think you know it ties perfectly with themes we see and the sort of ask for clients and the sort of 20 year history of legal Tech that's created this crazy spider diagram that they're trying to manage now of Point Solutions there's actually real cost saving potential just in that rationalization yes better adoption yes more consistent user experience but real saving um I Ben any comment on that and then a last question to you would be what's your plan for LSD over the next 18 months or so yeah um I mean nothing extra to add on that but I would just touch very briefly on on our our um next steps really um in the immediate it's the breadth so so the more we can get going through um uh what what what we refer to as ask legal um the more we can get going through ask legal um the better that um the better we can get out the out the back of it and and the more the better use cases and you know we see our business partners who who are using it feeding back positivity so it breeds it breeds and and it gets bigger so our immediate over over the course of 2024 is is increased breadth um of of usage and then beyond that and I won't go into it because we talked about it earlier but it's that ecosystem it's about the user experience and all the learnings that we have from more and more people using it um will teach us which direction it goes in in the future and just briefly thanks Ben we've got one more question and if we answer this then we've got a full house um lashme thank you for for that the question is what use cases have been solved and I think I I've seen hundreds of different use cases solved across legal what you've got in LSD is a very flexible tool set that out of the box has some standard workflows and can be configured very very simply to address the needs every every legal function is different is the reality right now um they will gradually consolidate in terms of common themes but I think right now a lot of difference and you've got a flexible tool that supports that shaath there's your two minutes back just to wrap us up great uh thank you very much um for all your great insights and love to see all these great questions come in just to wrap up in two minutes um we have a number of resources for you the links are in the chat window for you to download these um we have a white paper that service now and deoe collaborated on on how do you actually create a modern uh legal team and really focused around legal operations uh there's a Gartner report as well as a link to the product page on service now.com we also have another upcoming webinar um you know Andy gave some great insights about how we're doing it in service now here's a an entire uh webinar coming up on how we did it how service now's legal team actually transformed youal uh using Legal Service delivery that is on April 25th a link is in the chat window and you can go ahead and register for that and of course we have our amazing knowledge 24 conference happening in Las Vegas May 7th through the 9th it's an amazing event over 500 uh sessions thousands of service now customers highly recommend you come and attend uh knowledge 24 if possible and with that U looks like we've already um reached our time and thank thank you very much for all the speakers thank you to all of the guests uh that attended and this recording will be available on the link in the chat window thank you everyone thanks guys