welcome to breakpoint the service now developer podcast hello service now admins Builders developers and curious individuals and I say that with the most utmost love and respect welcome to or welcome back to the breakpoint podcast the service now developer podcast where we bring you the latest tools tips and tradecraft to accelerate your career my name is Lauren McManaman senior developer ads which might come as a shock this is not my uh first time on the podcast but it's my first time kicking it off and that is for a very special reason if you are listening to this on the auditory Channel know that there is a video version to complement today's episode because this is the 100th episode of breakpoint which is a very very special occasion that we want to celebrate with as much Pomp and Circumstance as possible and we could not think of a better person to interview for this episode than m Chuck tamasi himself how does it feel to be in the passenger side for once I keep stepping on The Brak like you're riding in a car like who let her have the mic you're up a good start I'm so excited for this achievement we've sent you a couple of goodies obviously we're recording this in different states currently I'm in Texas you're in Arizona we tried to send some things so that there is a couple of surprises coming towards the end of this podcast so stick around now Chuck we have 10 big questions for you today 10 very interesting ones about your life your career and everything to come so are you prepared to be in the hot seat today absolutely not that was the point right no preparation this is all off the cuff yeah usually we do the courtesy of kind of prepping our guests but I thought it might be kind of fun and a little bit of a challenge for ones to leave someone in blinds and see how it goes we'll all learn something here today we sure will so uh to kick things off now before we dive into the questions about the man himself let's do a quick trip down memory lane for breakpoint Imagine where we are it's July 22nd 2020 and this is the first snippet that debuted where you said the purpose of breakpoint was to have quote a discussion with others that work on the now platform to share ideas and gain insights remarkably still really accurate three years and 100 episodes later what has led you to being so consistent with it and is this where you imagine that consistency would lead to today wow this almost sounds like a podcast we should have for the book podcasting for [Laughter] dummies uh it really it was a vision I think Lily Lee was the first person to suggest we do a a podcast and I was actually not that Keen to the idea because a lot of what we do is around demos it's around showing it's around storytelling it's and and just to have an audio podcast just threw me off a bit and then the more I thought about it the more we could explore the non-technical things so career conversations came into play and we really focused on what was that vision of what a pod a developer podcast could be so we really stood it up on three legs it was the career conversations it was talks with product managers and what's the third leg Lauren I'm drawing a blank oh soft skills soft skills like soft skills yeah that that's what it was yeah ironically I can't think of soft skills well which of the three has been the most surprising success that you didn't really expect to take off like it did well I expected some interesting listenership to the product especially around release time we already knew that the tech now episodes were big when a new release would come out everybody gets interested to find out what the new latest toys are the uh the career conversations were also fun the the soft skills we we need to do more of those let's just say but they're they're all very interesting in fact there's there's been sometimes where I've contemplated breaking this into three different podcasts just for those trains of thought but that would be three times the work so nope only so many hours in the day now pivoting to questions about you yourself now unlike me I grew up as an only child you grew up in a massive family one of nine if I am correct and what's really lovely is like you still take a tremendous amount of time and effort to like get the gang back together I think it was just a few months ago you all gathered together for your dad's bid 80th birthday party so shout out to Mr tomasi on that huge accomplishment too there's a quote that says people are the average of the five people they spend the most time with so I'm G to take a Twist on that what traits in yourself can you attribute to those other siblings and their influence growing up oh my goodness I you know there are so many times when I'm editing the podcast for example and I will hear my sister's Voice or my brother's voice so there's there's a lot of tonal qualities we grew up it I wouldn't say it was like fiercely competitive where you're elbowing somebody out of the way to breakfast table yeah no not that much uh but we did the it usually came in around the humor when somebody would make a wise crack and then somebody would have to up them we still do this it's only it's in text messages now we still have a text chain that has most of us and maybe even a brother or sister-in-law on there and I think there's now one with the parents so I have to be careful what we say you know we don't want to get by Mom and Dad even though we're well into our 50s and 60s at this point um we but it's it's that that level of humor that know my older sister Marilyn she seems to be a ring leader to this but everybody chimes in and uh sometimes you get a real singer and that just you know to brighten up each other's day makes it all that much better that's such a sweet answer and I think it really comes through in like a lot of the work that you do I think that's something that people really respect about especially with tech right you wouldn't usually think of tech as a form of light-hearted entertainment or edutainment uh but I think that that's why a lot of your content is like so widely consumed because it's not only like very informative but also very fun too so shout out to your sister and siblings for encouraging that behavior that snarky voice is always in my head I've just learned to contain it once in a while yeah there are always a couple of uh things that don't make the final cut of these episodes so that's especially when alcohol is involved in the filter cuts off yeah join speaking of join a live coding happy hour for those couple of slip UPS occasionally so back at knowledge 23 I had the pleasure of finally meeting your wife Donna I'll toss up some pictures in the video format of one of the recent cruises y'all been on you'all been on a lot of fun cruises recently if you ask a lot of people how they met their partner especially people that have been married as long as y'all have I believe when this airs you'll have already celebrated your 35th Anniversary it's usually a bit of kind of a Meandering conversation as the couple you know put together the specifics but not you I really want to open the floor for you to Tre us with that story because I find it to be a very very sweet story uh you want my version or you want Donna's version I'm kidding uh we met in college we met in college in the fall of 1986 we had a couple of classes together and uh you know I did as most college guys did looked around the room and was there anyone you know attractive interesting Etc and uh you know we had some lunches together and then as it got into the next semester in they called it winter 87 we had three classes together and I needed to go for some training I was working at a local computer store and we had to be IBM certified to be an IBM dealer and I was a service technician at the time no surprise there you know College Tech computer science degree that whole thing yeah and um you know we had become we started becoming good friends well there was also Donna's other friend and oftentimes when we went to lunch it was the three of us so they were having this debate on who I was interested in it a mystery Donna was saying he likes you and Gretchen was saying no Donna he likes you and back and forth I'm like I don't know sounds like I'm going to win either way you know I didn't find this out until later well we had I had this IBM training and I I I was dialing in from the computer store into the Mainframe to do some of my work assignments or my homework assignments and she worked in the computer lab as a lab operator basically you somebody who makes sure the batches are running and gets the paper up the the printer for all the students and blah blah blah uh so we had a Communications Channel very very early email this is like 1987 no not slacker teams dial up to a Mainframe and type in your emails well I had I said I am headed to I'm going to be away for a few days could I get you to uh give me the assignments when I get back she goes sure yeah okay what is your phone number and that's how I got her phone number is and now I could call you know afterwards somewhere in a scrapbook I still have that dot matrix print out of her phone number that's so sweet I even and times at work you've been like oh it's the anniversary of our first date I'm like you remember the exact day of your first date that's so sweet I remember the four most important dates when we met our first kiss when we got engaged and of course when we got married and her birthday you know that's also important so who was a winner oh those are the four gentlemen listening to this podcast take take not it's very very yeah whatever it takes if you got to put a reminder on your calendar or write it down on your bathroom mirror whatever it takes keep those in mind and celebrate them so you know I got her phone number and we had uh it was April 8th 1987 that's how I remembered the uh the next total solar eclipse date too oh you know those really common in tandem things you know dates and solar events right very rare things a kiss from a girl well she had called me up we had this secret line I and let me know if this is going way too long but when I worked at the computer store there was rollover lines so if you dial 228 8515 and that line was busy it would roll over to 8516 and if 861 busy we had a third line for 8517 rarely did anybody call so I gave Donna the middle number call me at work at 22 8851 why I remember these things I don't know wanted you to tell about this cuz I'm like the amount of detail is startling I've told this story a few times too yeah but uh I knew it was her if that middle line would light up because the light you know this is the old days when you had light up on the phones and I knew it was her and she said hey I've got tickets to a Beatles tribute band tonight called 1964 is the Beatles would you like to go and my very good friend Scott whom I talk to once a month he was sing in my wedding as well he will back me up on this I fell on the floor I was in shock the will do that no not the Beatles The Beatles tribute band will do that no just having a date he said what said I've been asked out on a date so we uh we went out and uh afterwards we took a drive this is in marquet Michigan right on the shores of Lake Superior so we took a drive down by the lake and you know went parking turned on the radio and here's a classic song from the 80s most people who've been through that era Will Remember Song by Atlantic Star called always turn on the radio and our first kiss was to that song Fast Forward nine months and I popped the question she said yes turned on the radio same song oh sahity that's that's lovely it was Destiny so yeah we met in college and I graduated a semester ahead of her I graduated in the in December of 8 7 and had a job starting in January of 88 uh she went for another semester but all that while in two weeks I went from starving college student Eng and then I got engaged started a career moved away we start planning the wedding got married in October of 88 you're like I want all major life events in one semester life is like that it can it can go you know pretty I won't say mundane but pretty regular and scheduled for a while and then you get a whole bunch of change all at once how nice that that's such a lovely story so one other attribute about you that a lot of external people might not be familiar with is that you're one of the most phenomenally organized people I know he's even if you say so you had to see my sock drawer man well I mean organizationally organizationally from like a data standpoint as well so like you're very prepared you're very very analytical with how you like you have a process for everything he's even done like a mini master class for our developer advocacy team for example so one another thing that you love to do are conventions like Dragon Con comes to mind you've been on multiple star track cruises as well as a partaker myself of planning big audacious vacations and things like that walk us through your perfectly planned out convention weekend oh my goodness um actually when it comes to the travel plans Donna does most of that she goes hey we're taking you want to go to Iceland here's a trip and we found a group and I just go yeah sure when is it um but she does most of the family organizing but until 2023 I had been going to Dragon Con with my friend so uh she hadn't joined us yet until this year and now she's going again so it must have worked the the perfectly planned out one I would say It's a combination of both getting to do something that performance aspect that participation being I don't know in the spotlight and uh you enjoying others doing that as well so when it comes to the Star Trek Crews for example that's a lot of fun because you get to intermingle with the celebrities The Producers the you know the makeup artists the the people that do that they are the performers however there's karaoke so I get to be a performer for a little while and also enjoy my fellow karaoke singers whom I've met a ton of them over the years same kind of thing with Dragon Con we do two panels one for our Star Trek podcast and one for our technorama podcast and the parade which needs some organizing and coordinating because I'm the ring leader of that whole thing we've got a group at the end of the Dragon Con parade and I also do I'll be doing two um ioke session so I'll be the DJ for that for two nights but I also get to this one's a little more on the you know work side not quite as much as knowledge hopefully not good God hopefully not there I did get to one panel last year on how to put on a bald Appliance because I wanted tips on how to put on a bald Appliance for the parade so now I know what do you mean bald what's the bald Appliance what it's the it's the latex head that you put on to look bald like a wig cap okay I was like what is a bald appli when you put no it's not like your refrigerator got hairy so you go shave it that's what I thought I was like what is that like a toaster what is that in the makeup industry with when All Appliance yeah if you got a nose piece it's called an appliance got a head you putting on the klling on thing it's called a an appliance so got you so moving on from fun stuff let's get more into career a little bit I have listened to a lot of career and business audiobooks and you know my big criticism that I have them is that a lot of people that write them are all kind of similar they're all super typ a they had a plan when they were six years old and they stuck to it and they you know preserved that dream and they never changed um but what you've achieved a significant amount of success in your life on a different path you're the host of multiple podcasts you are the author of multiple books much to bill mcdermit shagrin you were probably the most recognizable face of our company and you racked up over 8,000 followers on LinkedIn your path was very exploratory though so what is the blueprint for being able to achieve success while allowing time for curiosity I I I want to back up and you mentioned Bill mcder he's one of those people that seem to have that Vision you know I want to be CEO of zero Winner's dream yes absolutely and God bless you you know I didn't I didn't wake up when I was 10 years old and go I want to be a developer Advocate you know that's there was no such thing you know so I when I was 10 years old I knew it was going to be something STEM related uh there were times when I wanted to be a dentist or orthodontist or something in the medical field there were times when I wanted to be out digging dinosaur bones you know so it was I always had that interest and and you know when you look in the rearview mirror it's always easy to tell the signs that were on the wall uh my friend and I would write secret code messages in in school and send them back and forth and we would invent the code so it's like yeah there were there were there were tips of of you know software in there if you think about it I was 1970 whatever it was wasn't a whole lot of software development going on in my school but um my secret has been Follow Your Passion do what you love find that interest and and let it bear fruit that's all I've done I've I've I've applied myself with I'm interested the most uh for a while I was doing unic system administration I loved unic systems and know probably still be doing that if it if if there was an opportunity to do it uh but that led to other things and and even at service now when I got here as a technical consultant doing implementations someone spotted me doing presentations or blogs or uh and then that opened up an opportunity to join this other group and that is another group a couple years later so it wasn't job hopping so much as the opportuni is coming to find me and I feel incredibly honored and blessed to have these opportunities in a growing organization I know you know the economy has been different for different people the you know their companies may not have flourished quite as much as we have at service now but even in I I've basically worked for two companies one for 22 years and and service now since 2010 and it's it both have been growth companies more so in one than the other but if if you have a passion certainly have that discussion with your boss and with your boss's boss to let them know what you would love to do what is your what is your next goal hardest question I ever got asked was where do you see yourself in three to five years in techology so much but she asked me that all the time and I go I don't I hate that question know it wasn't until about years ago that I learned how to answer it it's not in terms of I want to be CIO or I want to be you know that's that's a noble goal and if you want to have that specific of it great but be prepared to change your plans because all plans change you'll be halfway there and the company will let you go or something so it's you have to be flexible my my answer to that is I want to continue to learn I want to be able to share that with people I want to be able to change their lives you know that's really the mission in fact if you go to my website it says that I learn I share I change lives took a long time just to get that message in my head it's been there for decades I just didn't recognize it and couldn't articulate it until I was staring at that page going I need something here what is it I do what is it I love doing and that doesn't it doesn't matter whether I go be a school teacher I'm still learning and sharing and changing lives or I'm a developer Advocate or whatever so hopefully I'm learning things that I'm really really interested in which I am right now that's great I love I love to see that passion still because like you said you've worked for service now a considerable amount of time so to stay that passionate is such a a treat um with so alongside of you there are many great icons that have honed a similar trait Jimmy Buffett with Hawaiian shirts Taylor Swift with her red lipstick I can guess where this is going Anna Anna Wintour with her bob and sunglasses Etc parat top for his shoes yes over time you've ConEd your own iconic look with your bow ties one that you are wearing currently in the video form of this podcast I assume the inspiration wasn't peeee so tell us the story of how that started nor Bill NY nor Bill NY nor Doctor Who ah the bow tie story again this is this is I know there's there's a number of people who have not heard this and if you have you could probably fast forward for this part um it started out with a dress code for knowledge I think it was knowledge 12 13 it was knowledge 13 again apologize if it gets a little too detailed but uh the dress code was hey at knowledge we want people to be able to easily recognize the employees so we're going to have a consistent dress code so if you want to find an employee you look for this characteristic well they said everybody's going to be wearing black shirt black pants this is back in the the know the red and white black logo with the power button which came out in 2012 so we were a year or so into that and black shirt black shoes black pants black dress everything is black and I thought everyone looks like a tech hand from behind like a Stage production I thought we would look like a Johnny Cash convention or funeral or something it's like this is I needed to break this up and call back to being one of nine children you had to stand out in some way okay be obnoxious and throw bottles against the wall that kind of thing but unless you made yourself known you might get left at the zoo so my my inner child survival skills kicked in and I went yeah I need some way to stand out just bend the rules not break them my initial idea was I know I'll get a black Kilt and I'll use that power button as the Spore in and nah I'm not wearing a k so thank goodness you history could have been quite different yeah if You' committed to Plaid that whole time nope no and it wouldn't work on camera you know right now we shoulders up so the uh the in the in the middle of the night we were living in Wisconson I remember it was a cold February night it was about 2 am I woke up and I went I've got it a bow tie it packs light I can wear it I don't even see it when I you know I got to look way down to see my chin so this is perfect I have no idea and and I even had a vision of what this final product would look like yeah but I had no idea went well these days you can find anything or get anything on the internet so I started doing a little research and it turned into one of those adventure games you know where the king says go save the princess and to get the princess you got to get the key and to get the key you got to kill the dragon you know you work your way backwards on this thing yeah to get the tie I need fabric to make the fabric I got to have a pattern to make the pattern I got to have a Graphic and I'm going well who do I know that knows graphic skills my buddy Craig he can make me something Craig Craig step yep he came up I had the you know the vision in my head and we went back and forth he's like how's this no no make sure they rotate 90 degrees oh how's this now I want it diagonal now how's this so it was a little back and forth and having fun with that finally got the pattern sent it off and uh got the fabric and the lady in Maine who sews these things together seed them and got them back meanwhile I'm doing some business travel as far away as Singapore and and the bow ties came in and the fabric was off it was like pink it was way too light yeah and the and the power buttons were too small they look like little dots it's like polka dot you can't tell online no so I said oh this is not going to work and she felt bad she said I'll pay for the next round of fabric it's only like a yard of cloth it wasn't that expensive and I'll sew them up and we had about two weeks before knowledge to get them so the next one's com come back and it was red or it wasn't like fire engine red is what I was looking for yeah it was It was kind of tomato soup red but it was close enough the the buttons were bigger and I wore that one for a couple of years then we moved to uh that that's how it got started it was it was really trying to bend the rules and break the rules what I didn't count on was that it would become you know the this thing yeah I think it was the next year I'm walking into knowledge and I'm hul in the suitcase I'm at the check-in counter and somebody says hey Chuck where's your bow tie it's in the suitcase I'm I I so now I have to put it on you know before I even get out of the car you know back in Hendersonville before we get to otherwise you get heckled apparently or it could be my you know you know Clark Kent versus Superman take the bow tie off and no one knows who I am honestly that happened knowledge Master with my pink glasses I I similarly I bought a pair of pink glasses right before knowledge I SP build coffee on them at the airport and so I took them off and I was speaking with someone for a long time and they're like you were oh you they're like oh you're luren I'm like yes do am I that different without pink glasses on apparently so so I want to also talk about something a little bit personal obviously this is not uh we don't want to talk about just work and I think one thing I really admire about you is a tenacity that you've always really embodied that comes out in things like knowledge that are really really difficult and require tremendous amount of effort and time and labor and you know a lot of other people are like gosh when it's going to be over and you maintain this like very positive attitude um it comes off and waves during every presentation um but it's made even more obvious by your choice of hobbies right you've you've run scuba diving Charters and freezing great lake waters in your youth you've obtained your second if not third degree black belt I believe third okay I don't want to missp you've lean towards interests in general that have and represent a lot of mental fortitude in face of something sometimes scary it's not something I've really heard you speak about a lot publicly but um as of 2018 you've survived about With The Big C and that's not Co you hear more and more each day about how important mind over matter really is so how much should having that backbone help you during that really troubling experience uh it was very much a part of it the and thank you for the for the very kind words I never never thought of some of those things quite that way until you said them so the uh the mental fortitude it was very similar to you know when I got let go from my last job in 2010 maintain a positive attitude because that's what people will remember and it also helps with your own internal energy it it it messed with my mind there was a six week period from the time I was diagnosed to the time I actually had the surgery where I went to sales kickoff in 2018 and I had to keep this to myself I mean you know John Dono is literally standing next to me and like it it it messed with my mind because like how far has this spread are they going to find something else am I GNA you know what's my life going to be like after this but it that that I didn't count on the other thing I didn't count on and and I I tend to be a pretty positive person I yes I know there are plenty of people out there with uh you mental health issues I my daughter being one of them and I have a hard time just comprehending that you know depression anxiety very common these days and I I I I got a taste of that so it helped me appreciate what what they go through the other thing I didn't didn't count on was the emotional impact of the situation you know they always say you know cancer changes your life you get a whole new outlook and you don't really feel that until you feel that um I was I was at home recovering and my boss I I let him know I said hey look I'm going to be out for a couple of weeks he says you do what you got to do and then the the the VP One Step Up in the ladder sent a message back to me goes take whatever time you need we got this covered and that just hit me like a wave going holy moly there's people out out there that kill I that that that care about you that you know normally you think of your co-workers your co-workers you know they'll they'll cover while I'm on vacation that's one thing yeah but it's a little different it's a little different it's a lot different and then you know I got a a voicemail from my brother and my three nephews and you know they they they made some joke or something I was in tears over that thing I I shouldn't be I shouldn't be crying over an email or a voicemail but just that level of outpouring and support and Care uh you know hit me and it made me realize you what can I do to help others who may be in the similar situation so I had a very good friend from high school we we kept in touch because we're kind of related through Donna side of the family second marriage sort of thing so I kept in touch with him and his name is Don and Don was diagnosed about three weeks after I was his surgery was a several weeks after mine but we kept in touch via text via weekly phone calls going back and forth as our own little support group uh there's things the doctor will tell you and there's things that my doctor will tell you and there's the things that uh you know I learned and the things that he learned and what medication and what instruments and what procedures and so we could bounce these off of each other so when I went in for my regular appointments I could say hey Dr Ralph or whatever is I said what about this and he said oh yeah you know I've heard of that or you know I think we discussed that and so we could have a deeper conversation information is power particularly in situations quite literally where your life may be on the line find those people so I offer this to and I said this on LinkedIn as well if you or anyone you know has been diagnosed or finds himself in this situation or they're just questions let me know I'm an open book I I I have had very very personal conversations with other men in this situation you might think you'll never talk to another man about some of these things but boy howdy it helps well thank I really appreciate you also like being vulnerable to talk about it and like I said my dad recently struggled with something like this he's similar to you he's like five years in the clear now so but I really appreciate the openness to to discussing that especially on something like LinkedIn where you kind of you don't even know where those post go um or who they're helping so I really I really appreciate you speaking about that learn share change lives well similarly to learning let me pivot to a little bit of a more light-hearted subject let's talk about knowledge why not oh good I thought you were G to talk about this morning's H A Hazard oh go and we'll leave that open-ended so that the audience can guess what that meant uh correct me if I'm wrong you've attended every single one of the knowledge conferences correct no no seven was the first one seven was the first one it was simply called the service now user group so it was a technically a snug but they didn't name it knowledge until eight I you have you have attended I didn't go to knowledge eight or nine nine was really close because we were a customer by that point and I was trained but we didn't get the funding or whatever it was I didn't get to nine but I was at 10 as a customer that's when I got the innovation of the Year award yes few weeks later I was let go to the tune of about 10 days later uh it was let go and that piece of paper helped me gain entry I won't say secure the job but gain entry uh that and saying hello to a lot of the people at the conference Doug schultzy uh Jared leam some of them probably don't even remember when I did this but I remember Fred luy met Fred and his wife sent Fred a thank you notes so there were some good professional career moves made there thank goodness and and that helped land a job but I when I got the funny thing is when I got to knowledge 11 Doug asked me to co-present with him on Discovery great that was fun was nice way to at that time most of Professional Services went anyway because they were training we didn't really have a training department till knowledge 12 uh the the technical consultants were doing a lot of the pre-con training me included uh carlen uh car Carter Ian Bros you a lot of the the names that you might hear still in the ecosystem were there and um knowledge 12 I did like a best practices session or it it it gradually got to be more and more now you get two sessions now now you're going to do a l a build live demo and by the time we got to 18 I just about my head exploded I said who okay we got to pump the brakes on this a little bit because this isn't sustainable I I loved every minute of delivering it it was the preparation leading up that kills it you know this from your experiences in preparing for knowledge as well so what what you're trying to say is that you've held basically every role kind of at knowledge you've come as an attendee when you were a customer you've run preon training you've hosted demo Booth you've obviously transitioned into this role where you're kind of cap co- captaining you know creater con along side our entire team I would be so bold as to say that you have the most comprehensive vantage point of this event sorry Jason given that given that W what traits of old quote unquote old knowledge do you want to see resurrected for future knowledge events well we brought back the app of the Year award heck yeah heck yeah you know I won the first one and then also got to introduce it The Rebirth of that as the devies that was truly a team effort uh and it was on a scale unlike what I had gone through and I'm really glad I got mine back in 2010 when the competition was much easier there's no panel interview yeah yeah there's there's no making a video there's it was basically send in some screenshots and a write up and congratulations you're a finalist oh really yeah what else would I like to see from from old knowledge wow different locals perhaps or the power buttons I want the power buttons back personally yeah some the the theming the mascots that was that was a lot of fun there was a certain creativity in the air uh at the old ones although we did change themes or logos every other year seemed like so let's let's ditch that let's stay consistent on our branding for at least three years if we could Le save us some money buying shirts I know and ties and everything socks shoes it's a wardrobe thing at this point true when we went from the 2018 model the John Dono you know dual green scheme uh you know I had a lot of shirts light purple dark purple light orange dark orange light blue dark blue light green light dark green we had a wide palette and I I you know represented these on some of the videos if you watched the um the community live stream we had was it API adventures and Technical deep dive and what and each of them had a color theme with them and then 2022 hey we're rebranding what am I going to do with all these shirts fortunately most of them align with the lurgical calendar at church so wear a lent I'm wearing my purple shirts from 2018 but a nice way to reduce reuse recycle and fun fact if you're looking for any fun stuff for knowledge to wear this year um check out Seahawk stuff uh it's pretty darn close Seahawks is really close just leave off the logo that's that's what a lot of people said oh I love the Seahawks yeah that's why there's there's there's little uh emojis on my tie because if I just threw the colors on there it would look like a Seahawks tie that was not the intent no a fun fact there's one dress I have one side that's bright green the other side that's Navy and you think oh my gosh you got a custom service now dress there is a giant eagle on the back but if you're not facing my back you don't notice case the the one that I would love to get and and I wish I had asked somebody when we were in Australia in 2022 a lot of their Public Works people had on the safety jackets and they were like bright green on top and dark bluish on bottom but it was almost spot on I think I saw one in New York too and I'm tempted to you know ask the guy taking the lid off the sewer hey where'd you get that hey where where are you shopping these days yeah now unfortunately we got to start closing up things a little bit so I wanted to talk about what's on the horizon in the 13 years you've worked at service now you've held five titles you've worked under all four CEOs and as we just mentioned suffered under four rebrands you've seen massive waves of change uh so what is still on the plate goalwise for your lasting impact at service now um I would like to continue to help Define what our developer brand is you know we mentioned the the the power button you know the the button guys at knowledge and whatnot I'd like to see more of that create creativity comeback something that resonates more than Gilroy bold you know our developers the whole ecosystem when you win a t-shirt it's something you want to wear yeah and and and it generates questions and interests and uh there's there's a lot to explore there and a lot to unpack and we are working closely with our brand Team on ideas so hopefully kaking on wood will get something sometime uh so that discussion is at least happening now that's been a pet project of mine since when did Marcelo start 2021 something like that so it's it's coming up on three years that I I started working on a plan now it may not be my idea for the theme but we will have a theme which is exciting it's already exciting to see that I mean that influence is slowly coming out in our events so keep a Keen Eye on the big events that service now is doing and and in the de developer realm at least and see you'll see some things starting to slowly come out I think that'll make everyone pretty excited i' I've also been living the last several years maybe it was cancer maybe it was something else but I know I'm playing the back nine on this golf course you know I'm I'm in my late 50s there's only so many years ahead of me whether it's 251 my my mission right now is to pass the knowledge to enable the Next Generation as much as possible again that that learn share change lives thing comes into play here that uh you know make sure you and Earl and pron of and you know hopefully we'll get some headcount and I can wish dream big dream big to to to pass that on you know and and and also I appreciate you know the the new viewpoints that everybody brings as we add new team members I'm not that old stodgy guy that goes well this is the way we're doing it and this is my way no everybody brings New Perspectives I realize that I don't see things through the the same lens you watch videos and have a closer eye on on you know Millennials and gen xers than I do and you know we're constantly having discussions about movies and songs and whatnot and I'm like I have no idea what that is and you're making me again but I'm listening and I want to know how does that impact what we do and how we do it and always open to the ideas as as well as you know sharing my experience and together I think that's a winning combination well our final question of the day I think it's very rare to hear people talk about their corporate job with the joy that you do um I've even heard you imply that this really is is even a job anymore because you're so passionate about it it's just kind of like a fun project that you get to do so I think that's very rare I think that I I really hope that a lot of people find that Joy but I don't know if that's the case so what words of advice do you have for those people that are out there seeking to find that and what is the biggest conductor of joy to prioritize uh be patient you know when I was swapping out motherboards at 3 am when I was much much younger in an earlier part of my career it didn't really bring me that much joy you know Fair there's things you have to you know staying awake for all night to to an OS upgrade back when OS was on tape you know there's there's going to be parts of your job that you have to do do them well do your it's the same message I gave my kids every day when I dropped them off for school you don't have to get a just do your best and if you do your best it will work out much better if you just give a half-hearted attempt it's going to show and it's going to come back to haunt you so do your best be patient and as far as where to cultivate to get the the the best oomph out of your career relationships relationships relationships you know make friends with people in your organization as well as outside of your organization this this was hugely evid when I went to knowledge 10 I was you just doing what I do normally I I talk to people shake hands make comments uh about what their laptop bag is or one point we were playing lightsabers on our iPods I think it was at the time have iPhones and just interactions like that pay dividends not just make the connections keep them alive yes when you meet at a conference stay in touch with those you're like wow that's a lot of people that's a lot of time well you're going to find 10 days after you get back from that conference like I did you may be let go two of those I had job leads within a few hours some one of them was within minutes like wow this networking thing really really works you know that was that was hard evidence for me anyway that it does pay so invest to those relationships it is currency and and you got to give back also you can't just be like take take take take take you got give back so uh you know volunteer to do things that you normally wouldn't get out of your comfort zone and explore those challenges uh that's where the growth happens even if you don't succeed you grow you're gonna learn something so man we could we could do a whole podcast for days just on Career tips but I won't go there well add that to the queue this doesn't have to be your last big interview Chuck it has been such a joy to interview you here today thank you so much for all these fantastic answers I know that I loved hearing them I I can imagine how much the audience loved learning more about you and your fantastic life and so we want to have one more moment so if you're not watching this podcast please click over to the video just so you can see we have sent Chuck a surprise so you can now open up your surprise there's actually two cookies one is cookies one is some crumble cookies I I wanted to send a cake but I thought I don't know how well they'll come from Texas so holy crap these are huge cookies have you not had crumble cookies before no so fun fact if you look up their calorie cont look at the size of these things they're like pizzas if you look up the calorie content they're like oh that's not too bad each cookie four servings I was going to say yeah there yeah okay and I just lost all that extra weight from the last Cruise so I could fit into this shirt for the Washington launch so the so the next one yeah is this big tube a big tube a FedEx triangle box I brought my service now box opener oh multi-tool thing was that Dale Stubblefield that gave that to me somebody I think it was Dale shout out to Dale Stubblefield okay so open something rolled up it is nice that's actually it says break point wait wait we got to see what else that's all I can read on the end we have to unfurl the sacred Scrolls I love the uh ASMR of unwrapping that's also be included in this okay so from the B it says breakpoint from the bottom I'm going up got to get this on camera yet I still have to be able to talk on microphone here we go breakpoint 100 episodes of breakpoint and then there's a picture of lots of people who are these people do we know these people these are every so these are all the guests that you've had oh my gosh David Lou I see Arnold these are the guests we interviewed every single one oh you're kidding yes no not I'm not kidding I'm not kidding every single guest you have break point oh my gosh all my friends are you in here are you in here yeah okay because you we interviewed you oh there you are yeah oh in my knowledge 22 pose heck yeah how nice that they had those big resolution photos on our brand website oh my gosh Lauren that is so precious it's so special that's and now if you can't see it if you are watching if you're not watching the the people's faces are black and white so the green on the shirt really pops yeah too I wanted to thank everyone that's appeared on breakpoint because these episodes would not be here without all of you as well I'll post this image on LinkedIn so check out LinkedIn I'll post the high resed image so find yourself coverart yeah so find yourself in the picture if you can unfortunately a couple of of of y'all are kind of in Chuck's arm pit I apologize but had be Earl Earl is in the little bit I there's only so many spots guys I I did my best I'm not a Photoshop wizard so that took some time wow I'm I now I have to get a frame for this this is just too much oh that's precious I'm happy you like it congratul I do very very much well uh I think you should play us out any any place that people should come find you or any links that you want to include on oh I think all the people listening are already following so yeah link well there's the Washington calendar so we're pretty much at the end of their Washington content aming already episode comes out yeah so be sure check out Dev link.net and that'll list pretty much everything that our team has made for the Washington release on Des zanadoo yep we've got uh and and if You' missed it you know we mentioned the website a couple couple times the Center of My Universe is Chuck tas.com so that'll point to LinkedIn and Amazon and GitHub and YouTube and wherever else I put stuff so easy enough thank you so much this was a lot of fun who's doing the ending of this show I don't know what the ending is I forgot to write it down so so if you know the ending I I have most of it memorized after 100 episodes thank you lovely listener for joining us today thank you Lauren for all of the hard work I appreciate it if you're looking for other service Now podcast you can go over to the community servicenow.com community under the events menu of all places seems like it all be on a resources or something but that's where the podcasts are there are many many others that you can subscribe to get them automatically delivered to you for free breakpoint is produced by me and Lauren mostly Lauren on this one and we invite you to explore more of the things we offer developers at developer. servicenow.com on again thank you so much Lauren it has been a treat thank you and thank you to all of our wonderful listeners for listening to 100 episodes of prank point we will see you in 101 please let us know what you think about this podcast you can leave feedback or ask questions in the service now Community for more great information on service now development check out the service now developer portal at developer. servicenow.com thanks for listening