[Music] hey welcome to service sharp this is a podcast all about service now we will be talking strategy architecture technology just everything service now we are not affiliated with service now the opinions expressed our own weird just a couple of people that are very passionate about the platform so hope you'll join us for every episode and without further ado here we go alright welcome back this is Jason Gibson and we serve sharp joining me as always is Randy and Brent I appreciate you guys being here we're going to be covering mobile app today and we're going to be going over the kind of the differences between the old mobile app and the new one and maybe some specifics about the new one as well and also after that we're going to be covering a little bit we received some questions from somebody who listens and we're going to be covering their their questions and seeing if we can't help other people that are having some of the same issues but welcome everybody how are you guys doing doing good good having fun with the snow days oh yeah a lot of snow here in Oklahoma and then we have a lot of people from all over the world and I just but here in Oklahoma we have some very strange weather so we had you know 70 degrees one day and it was snowing like crazy the next so welcome to Oklahoma yeah actually a decent school it was it was yeah enough to shut down the city yeah well that only takes like a millimeter snow yeah snow on something in the shop in the town yeah there's like a 1% chance that there's gonna be ice or snow the bread and the milk disappear some stories tornado season yeah yeah take tornado season seriously one day we get is a disaster well let's get started I'm gonna we'll get started the mobile app so there was there was an old mobile app that was you know I used it a lot of people I know used it then this is you know prior to even Madrid this is something that came out you know pretty early on so we used it a lot it was now called ServiceNow classic yes yes and it wasn't the classic that's it definitely had its flaws and it didn't have any flexibility it was pretty rigid you could do really set set a few things and then they came out with this new Madrid mobile app and everybody was super excited about it everybody was super pumped we got it implemented and it was it was good it was applet based or app based which it was a step forward and then lo and behold the next version New York comes out and we've got to redo and now we have multiple apps so to kind of catch people up what that is is they have decided to switch it out so you have the mobile agent which is one app and the mobile app which is kind of like your end user or consumer-driven application would you kind of agree that that's that's kind of what we what they've done yes yep yeah now Mobile is for the customers and now agent seems to be for your technicians and licensed feet all the so on and the now agent came with Madrid and now mobile is with New York correct yes so so I've had lots we know we've set it up on several customers for both the Madrid and the New York I've got quite a bit of more experience with the New York one now since we've been we've been doing some implementations of it the one with Madrid was pretty limited and what came out of the box I think it was just honestly I don't think it was it was very much I think there was approvals in it can you remember off the top of your head what was in the Madrid 1 approvals and then they had an ITSM plugin that you could do and it is a studio app that had incident management in it and so you could you know look at your tickets they were assigned to you assign to your group you could reassign you can actually update and resolve a ticket from your mobile app that was a real winner and in the last implementation for that cusp for that team so that I mean before that took a lot of custom work so that's kind of where it was for that is out of the box they gave you a snippet and then expected you to do all the other studio work for other applications you needed right and so when they came up with the one for New York it also it came out of the box with with incident my incidents group incidents my approvals and it came still I think somewhat incomplete but the nice thing about the new the the nave of Madrid and New York you could build stuff and there pretty well so there are customers we've added task we've added change we've added Service Catalog which is interesting what do you see people had the most [Music] me button okay I see this service catalog was one of the first things that they wanted to add because you know opening catalog items for people or even being able to work your catalogue tests and that kind of stuff that wasn't out of the box so that was kind of a first custom that they wanted us to do that kind of stuff projects was a one that they really asked for and I was wondering Lauer how those PM's were gonna be running projects from their mobile but I could see updating that kind stuff one customer asked to do timesheets and still hadn't gotten that working so still working on that one but yeah there were quite a few little things it's not like you're gonna do everything you do in service now and there it was just hey you know I need to grab my incident that was just assigned to me or I need to update it or whatever so there was that kind of stuff that was requested but I know in New York they have a lot more out-of-the-box functions so that's nice yeah you know if I was today deciding whether to go to Madrid or skip Madrid and go to New York again I don't ever think it's best practice to skip anything I would want to get to New York as fast as possible for the mobile as far as the mobile office yep for the mobile side yes of one of the instances that I'm in charge of they are upgrading to New York right or we're upgrading to New York I guess I can be part of that because we want to get to the customer side of the portal or mobile app because they want to replace a home build application that the end-users used to log tickets so it's a third party that gets logged and then ported into service now so they want to get rid of that and use the native functionality so this is gonna be a good one for us for that yeah I mean absolutely and in the front the the thing that I really like about it is the unlimited flexibility so the structure is very very interesting to me you it's it starts with apps and so you have a mobile app that you will then build an application in the mobile app okay I mean it you're not building you're not building a mobile app separate from servers now you're building an app in ServiceNow so you'll use to still use the service now now write the application and then you have which is if you think about it in this case it's the bottom bar on the mobile app is incidents and approvals and tasks and change it's those things right there those are the apps and then you break that down to the athletes and the athletes are the things like my you know incidents active incidents my resolved instance behind my group incidents I mean those kind of things your applets which is pretty cool because then you can get specific and you know allow for that really easy click ability to find what you need yeah from that you have your your your functions it which is really important of course you have your your data items now your data items are like the what you're grabbing and then the function is what you're doing with it I mean it's it's really neat structure that allows you to kind of build it out quickly I mean I've nearly quickly thing yeah fairly quickly I mean if this it is it isn't pushing a button no wait there's a slight learning curve because you are still in studio right but the language is a little bit different than normal but also I was going to point out that the there are two apps there's the mobile now mobile and now agent but they both are done through studio and use the same terminology saying language all that kind of stuff you just they're separate so you can deploy one thing to one and you know go to the other but the thing that kind of threw me off at first time I start doing this is when you use data items and action items and all the actions and everything but it really quickly I caught on to how they were doing it and going from there so it is and in you know I find that as far as the development it goes back to the ServiceNow stuff right they give it they make it where you can develop stuff and learn how and learn to have that learning curve be pretty short mm-hm but once you're up to speed I think you can you know from you know initial conversations through development into production is you know half the time is trying to do it a different way you know what I mean yep I would agree oh I think that's that's where the benefit to this is you know and and if you have data in service now you need to get out to people that's this is just a great way to do it I haven't seen going you know crazy I haven't seen people going crazy with it yet building really really crazy stuff I haven't seen people doing things that are taking it way outside with the normal out-of-the-box or the intended functionality I think of is where I'm going well until you start in dime sheets I do like that in in New York okay so in Madrid like we said you had the ITSM mobile that was the only out-of-the-box that I know of that you could install plugin wise and you had your incidents and stuff in New York though they have I don't know a handful let's just list show I don't know about 10 or 15 maybe even more but things like project was one of them asset receiving through your mobile was some of the other filled services mobile so field services can use it a little bit better they can use the location that kind of state GRC was even one of them that was really cool Human Resources has their own stuff legal services I mean it just goes on and on so they have a lot more now right their own yeah they do don't they yes I did yep so and that's and that's the other thing you know right now if you go to studio you're gonna have two apps which is the you know but then you download HR that's gonna be a separate app and then I think that they're going to be consistently bringing out apps for each one of their products as we go right so project is its own app I just lost it the DRC's its own apps so all the mobile apps do come into studios separately so whenever you make your if you need to make modifications those it is a scoped app so you either have to make a view that's in the global or you go and do it updates set in that app and do that kind of stuff or however you want to mess with those apps but they are in studio to do that you know it is it is really amazing though the thought that they've come into this now I think that people don't really understand why they brought one mobile app in Madrid and one mobile app in in New York and the best thing I can say is in and I don't know I haven't talked to anybody about service now about this but my understanding is they bought a mobile company about that time right that's my understanding is that they had bought a company that was doing mobile apps and that was porting into ServiceNow or something like that something close to that and they brought them in and redesigned their app before because they're they're classic app pretty much mirrored whatever your portal was right your content portal and so it kind of mirrored that so if you had favorites they would show up that kind of stuff that is one thing out of the box that my customers don't like is that they don't see their their favorites anymore on the mobile so you kind of have to work around that but it's getting there it's much easier just support not so but yes my understanding was that they had either bought the code from the company or bought a company to do that like he said I haven't talked to anybody about it some service now so this is just what we've heard because the purchase and all that happened around similar time frames and so I think that it's it's kind of one of those things that but that they brought in another company to accelerate their development leaps and bounds forward and I think they did from one mobile app to the next mobile app it's a significant change in in the in not necessarily the structure of how you do it but there's a significant push forward in that so yep you know so mobile app great try it make sure you get it right don't overdo it try and like everything else try and stay out of the box they will continuously bring more and more and more out each time you know shocked when they come and they create you know the same thing that you just yeah I was say the agent we've had I've had to build more in the agent for for the IT side of the house but on the mobile app for our customers out of the box it was pretty close to what the customers would want to see you know my tickets I want to open tickets my approvals that kind of stuff it was simple for them and a lot of hard to use and all that so there wasn't a whole lot I had to do with the mobile apps but on the agent side is usually because you know the people using service nowaday today is technicians usually want to do a lot of that stuff in the agent and so that's why you have to modify it a little bit more so they they also know what they want more because they they're they they working it day in and day out users that they use it fairly infrequently but just like service analysis their customers you've got as nears so you know keep things as close to have the box as possible but if you have a customer that has a reasonable request you know at least you need to be actively engaged with your end-users to find out what you can do and how you can refine things to be better and the mobile app gives you the ability to do that and to refine those things so moving forward just say how do you like the mobile app what do you like what do you not like you'll be surprised on what they tell you I've had a lot of people super excited about it about the mobile happen every time we've done an implementation of mobile app it's been amazingly exciting for for the organization that's getting it done so I agree with that and a lot of that can be said for the whole the whole platform try to stay out of the box but if there's needs you can always modify a little bit and go from there kind of stuff exactly exactly reasonable reasonable stuff so all right so is there anything else that you think that you'd like to cover on mobile or anything like that I know that the you know I don't necessarily want to go deep into the functions but believe it or not it's been surprisingly easy to build the functions that I want and reasonably easy to create the entire app and applet system but I think I think that's about all but if you have any questions any you guys have any questions about it further we can always do a follow-up you know like we're what we're doing today for any questions you might have so don't hesitate to reach out to us and then let us know what what kind of questions you're having on it yep and I would definitely a recommend if you're if you're not comfortable turning it on and you're in your development instances or anything like that at least get a personal dev system turn it on load the app on your mobile device play with it in your personal dev it you learn a lot from that and it's pretty cool and you probably want to get deploy it in your production eventually but it's a good function for your your customers and users so we're going to take just a quick break when we come back we're going to talk about some questions that we previously had from from a listener so I'm looking really forward to that I think this is gonna be great I think this is information that everybody wants to ask for or that everybody once and so stay tuned and we'll be back in just a few minutes this podcast was made with anchor anchor is the easiest way to create and publish your podcast it's free creation tools with it allow you to record and edit your podcast right from your phone or computer helps you distribute your podcast it's super simple to publish to Spotify Apple podcast Google Play any of the major ones you can make money from your podcast there's no minimum listenership so they make it super easy to monetize it's really everything you need to make a podcast in one place so why don't you go out and download the free anchor app or go to anchor fm and get started all right welcome back and this is Jason Gibson and we serve sharp joining me as always is Randy and Brent I appreciate you guys being here we're going to be covering mobile app today and we're going to be going over the kind of the differences between the old mobile app of the new one and maybe some specifics about the new one as well and also after that we're going to be covering a little bit we received some questions from so many listens and we're going to be covering their their questions and seeing if we can't help other people that are having some of the same issues but welcome everybody how are you guys doing doing good good having fun with the snow days oh yeah a lot of snow here in Oklahoma and then we have a lot of people from all over the world and I just but here in Oklahoma we have some very strange weather so we had you know 70 degrees one day and it was snowing like crazy the next so welcome to Oklahoma yeah actually a decent fungus pool it was it was yeah enough to shut down the city yeah well that only takes like a millimeter yeah like a coating of snow on something in the shutdown yeah there's like a 1% chance that there's gonna be ice or snow the bread in the middle disappears tornado season let's get started we'll get started the mobile app so there was there was an old mobile app that was you know I used it a lot of people I know used it then this is you know prior to even Madrid this is something that came out you know pretty early on so we used it a lot it was now called ServiceNow classic yes yes and it wasn't the mobile classic that's it it definitely had its flaws and it didn't have any flexibility it was pretty rigid you could do really set set a few things and then they came out with this new Madrid mobile app and everybody was super excited about it everybody was super pumped we got it implemented and it was it was good it was applet based or app based which it was a step forward and then lo and behold the next version New York comes out and we've got to redo and now we have multiple apps so to kind of catch people up on what that is is they have decided to switch it out so you have the mobile agent which is one app and the mobile app which is kind of like your end user or consumer driven application would you kind of agree that that's kind of what we what they've done yes yep yeah now mobile is for the customers and now agent seems to be for your technicians and licensed feet all the so on and the now agent came with Madrid and now mobile is with New York correct yes yes so I've had lots we've set it up on several customers for both the Madrid and the New York okay quite a bit of more experience with the New York one now since we've been we've been doing some implementations of it the one with Madrid was pretty limited and what came out of the box I think it was just honestly I don't think it was it was very much I think there was approvals in it can you remember off the top of your head what was in the Madrid one approvals and then they had an IT SM plug-in that you could do and it is a studio app that had incident management in it and so you could you know look at your tickets they were assigned to you assigned to your group you could reassign you can actually update and resolve a ticket from your mobile app that was a real winner and in the last implementation for that cast for that team so that I mean before that took a lot of custom work so that's kind of where it was that is out of the box they gave you a snippet and then expected you to do all the other studio work for other applications you needed right and so when they came up with the one for New York it also it came out of the box with with incident my incidence group incidence my approvals in it came still I think somewhat incomplete but the nice thing about the new the the new book Madrid and New York you could build stuff and they're pretty well so they're customers we've added tasks without a change we've added Service Catalog which is interesting what do you see people add the most me button okay I see this Service Catalog was one of the first things that they wanted to add because you know opening catalog items for people or even being able to work your catalogue tests and that kind of stuff that wasn't out of the box so that was kind of a first custom that they wanted us to do that kind of stuff projects was a one that they really asked for and I was wondering where our how those PM's were gonna be running projects from their mobile but I could see updating that kind stuff one customer asked to do timesheets and still hadn't gotten that working so still working on that one but yeah there were quite a few little things it's not like you're gonna do everything you do in service now and there it was just hey you know I need to grab my incident that was just assigned to me or I need to update it or whatever so there was that kind of stuff that was requested but I know in New York they have a lot more out-of-the-box functions so that's nice yeah you know if I was today deciding whether to go to Madrid or skip Madrid and go to New York again I don't ever think it's best practice to skip anything I would want to get to New York as fast as possible for the mobile as far as the mobile app yep for the mobile side yes of one of the instances that I'm in charge of they are upgrading to New York right or we're upgrading to New York I guess I can be part of that because we want to get to the customer side of the portal or mobile app because they want to replace a home build application that the end-users used to log tickets so it's a third party that gets logged and then ported into service now so they want to get rid of that and use the native functionality so this is gonna be a good one for us for that yeah I mean absolutely and in the front the other thing that I really like about it is the unlimited flexibility so the structure is very very interesting to me you it's it starts with apps and so you have a mobile app that you will then build an application in the mobile app okay I mean it you're not building you're not building a mobile app separate from servers now you're building an app in ServiceNow so you'll use to still use the service now now the application and then you have which is if you think about it in this case it's the the bottom bar on the mobile app is incidents and approvals and tasks and change it's those things right there those are the apps and then you break that down to the athletes and the applets are the things like my you know incidents active incidents my resolve Bensons my group incidents I mean those kind of things your applets which is pretty cool because then you can get specific and you know allow for that really easy click ability to find what you need you know from that you have your your your functions it which is really important of course you have your your data items now your data items are like the what you're grabbing and then the function is what you're doing with it I mean it's it's really neat structure that allows you to kind of build it out quickly I mean I'm very quickly yeah very quickly I mean it's it is it isn't pushing a button no wait there's a slight learning curve because you are still in studio right but the language is a little bit different than normal but also I was going to point out that the there are two apps there's the mobile now mobile and now agent but they both are done through studio and use the same terminology same language all that kind of stuff you just they're separate so you can deploy one thing to one and you know go to the other but the thing that kind of threw me off at first time I start doing this is when you use data items and action items and all the actions and everything but it really quickly I caught on to how they were doing it and going from there so it is and you know I find that as far as the development it goes back to the ServiceNow stuff right they give it they make it where you can develop stuff and learn how and learn to have that learning curve be pretty short mm-hmm but once you're up to speed I think you can you know from you know initial conversations through development into production is you know half the time that's trying to do it a different way you know what I mean yep I would agree oh I think that's that's where the benefit to this is you know and and if you have data in service now you need to get out to people that's this is just a great way to do it I haven't seen going you know crazy I haven't seen people going crazy with it yet building really really crazy stuff I haven't seen people doing things that are taking it way outside with the normal out-of-the-box or the intended functionality I think of is where I'm only well until you start doing timesheets sure I do like that in in New York okay so in Madrid like we said you had the ITSM mobile that was the only out of the box that I know of that you could install plug in wise and you had your incidents and stuff in New York though they have I don't know a handful let's just list show I don't know about 10 or 15 maybe even more but things like project was one of them asset receiving through your mobile what was some of the other filled services mobile so filled services can use it a little bit better they can use the location that kind of state GRC was even one of them that was really cool Human Resources has their own stuff legal services I mean it just goes on and on so they have a lot more now right their own yeah they do don't they yes I did yep so and that's and that's the other thing you know right now if you go to studio you're gonna have two apps which is the you know but then you download HR that's gonna be a separate app and then I think that they're going to be consistently bringing out apps for each one of their products as we go right so project is its own app I just lost it the DRC's its own app so all the mobile apps do come into studios separately so whenever you make your if you need to make modifications those it is a scoped app so you either have to make a view that's in the global or you go and do it update set in that app and do that kind of stuff or however you want to mess with those apps but they are in studio to do that you know it is it is really amazing though the thought that they've come into this now I think that people don't really understand why they brought one mobile app in Madrid and one mobile app in in New York and the best thing I can say is in and I don't know I haven't talked to anybody about ServiceNow about this but my understanding is they bought a mobile company about that time right that's my understanding is that they had bought a company that was doing mobile apps and that was porting into ServiceNow or something like that something close to that and they brought them in and redesigned their app before because they're they're classic gap pretty much mirrored whatever your portal was right your content portal and so it kind of mirrored that so if you had favorites they would show up that kind of stuff that is one thing out of the box that my customers don't like is that they don't see their their favorites anymore on the mobile agent so you kind of have to work around that but it's getting there it's much easier just support not so but yes my understanding was that they had either bought the code from the company or bought a company to do that like you said I haven't talked to anybody about it from ServiceNow so this is just what we've heard because the purchase and all that happened around similar time frames and so I think that it's it's kind of one of those things that but that they brought in another company to accelerate their development leaps and bounds forward and I think they did from one mobile app to the next mobile app it's a significant change in the in not necessarily the structure of how you do it but there's a significant push forward in that so yep yeah so mobile app great try it make sure you get it right don't overdo it try and like everything else try and stay out of the box they will continuously bring more and more and more out each time you know shocked when they come and they create you know the same thing that you just yeah I was say the agent we've had I've had to build more in the agent for cuz for the IT side of the house but on the mobile app for our customers out of the box it was pretty close to what the customers would want to see you know my tickets I want to open tickets my approvals that kind of stuff it was simple for them and a lot of hard to use and all that so there wasn't a whole lot I had to do with the mobile apps but on the agent side is usually because you know the people using service nowaday today as technicians usually want to do a lot of that stuff in the agent and so that's why you have to modify it a little bit more so they they also know what they want more because they they're they they work in it day in and day out users they use it fairly infrequently but just like ServiceNow listen to their customers you've gotta listen ears so you know keep things as close to out of the box as possible but if you have a customer that has a reasonable request you know at least you need to be actively engaged with your end-users to find out what you can do and how you can refine things to be better and the mobile app gives you the ability to do that and to refine those things so moving forward just say hey how do you like the mobile app what do you like what do you not like you'll be surprised on what they tell you I've had a lot of people super excited about it about the mobile happen every time we've done an implementation of mobile app has been amazingly exciting for four the organization that's getting it done so I agree with that and a lot of that can be said for the whole the whole platform try to stay out of the box but if there's needs you can always modify a little bit and go from there kind of stuff exactly exactly reasonable reasonable stuff all right so is there anything else that you think that you'd like to cover on mobile or anything like that I know that the you know I don't necessarily want to go deep into the functions but believe it or not it's been surprisingly easy to build the functions that I want and reasonably easy to create the entire app and app applet system but I think I think that's about all but if you have any questions any of you guys have any questions about it further we can always do a follow-up you know like we're what we're doing today for any questions you might have so don't hesitate to reach out to us and then let us know what what kind of questions you're having on it yep and I would definitely recommend if you're if you're not comfortable turning it on and you're in your development instances or anything like that at least get a personal dev system turn it on load the app on your mobile device play with it in your personal dev it you learn a lot from that and it's pretty cool and you probably want to get deploy it in your production eventually but it's a good function for your your customers and users so we're going to take just a quick break when we come back we're going to talk about some questions that we previously had from from a listener so I'm looking really forward to that I think this is going to be great I think this is information that everybody wants to ask for or that everybody wants and so stay tuned and we'll be back in just a few minutes all right welcome back this is Jason Gibson of course joined by Brent and Randy and we have received some questions and so I thought we would cover some of these things with you Randy you've got the questions so let's get started what what was it that that they wanted to know okay yeah so we got a few questions and would pick some of these out to go ahead and go over and I think that like you said before we took the break I think that they'll apply to a lot of people that you know we've talked to you know some common threads and the emails that we got about you know servers now being a really great solution or a game-changer for the organization but not implemented very well or having trouble with implementation and you know kind of echoing some of the things that I said when I first take over ServiceNow no we talked about it in a couple of different podcasts about when I first took over management of the ServiceNow group my aim was to get it out of the organization thank you because of how cumbersome it was seen as at the time and then I was really you know I talked about going to knowledge and it was really basically converted into the fanboy I am now with it so I think it's really powerful but I also I don't know how often you guys run up against this but I still hear kind of that same you know the same thing and I think that you know there's still there's still some places out there where there's a lot that can be changed and of course we went to that deal in in Dallas and saw the but now it worked demo where they were running the entire train system off of service now and it's just you know there's amazing power behind it but sometimes it just comes out clunky and doesn't doesn't get the traction that it should get in the company so I think I think a lot of that there's a cup things we ended up getting a lot of traction because we showed the power of the platform the the problem is if they only have certain experience of DUI they don't really understand the power of the platform it's hard for them to grasp but I think source now is making huge improvements at this point if you look at agent workspace that's where they're headed in you know we we implement an agent workspace to an organization who is now talking about how it's significantly significantly cut down on the number of minutes it takes to to take and resolve a phone call and everything's at their fingertips and there's so much of a better UI with it so I think summers now has identified that and is working to resolving those issues pretty quickly sorry no I think the idea though is you know one a lot of people aren't using the new UI stuff a lot of people haven't implemented things like agent workspace right and so they're not utilizing some of the newer stuff and they're still in the clunkier UI which is only really made for for guys like us who are admins and developers were they were they're not really made for the tech or the the vice-president or you know those guys those guys it's this is a different duty that you know it has to be separated out and then so I think that they're headed in that direction they just not all the way there yet yeah I'm really glad to see that the movements are making in the UI space as far as that goes I think that there's another issue as well though that we see where like you said they're not using the new wife the new UI features but I think also you bring in something I wish Justin was on the podcast because it's something he's talked about several times you bring in a full stack developer or a front-end developer or something like that from somewhere else and turn them loose on ServiceNow well you can't just write JavaScript to do what you want to do you have to interact with the system you have to figure out how to interact with ServiceNow because it takes care of a lot of things that you would normally take care of yourself and so if you're not aware of that you don't take the time to figure that out you don't take the time to learn those differences you end up writing a box around something that's already there and that causes it to be clunky and not usable and and hard to upgrade absolutely I think keeping it out of the box is one of the most important things and doing trying to when you do do customizations and configurations you do it the right way in the right place and the right style I can't tell you how many policies I've written in order to control how things are done you know we have a very strict catalog policy on how to design and implement catalog items right mm-hmm because there's so many ways to mess it up and if you're worried about your developers not doing it the right way you have to tell them what the right way is and if you've got a bunch of new people or but ii don't understand service now you have to build a framework around it you know and that helps yeah [Music] yeah I think that I like to think of ServiceNow like a set of Legos you need to get a set of Legos and there's enough parts to really make anything you want but usually there's a purpose to that Lego set and so if you buy a car Lego set build a car don't don't try to build a you know a spaceship with it or something like that people that you know kind of just do what I do which anytime I've done with Legos it looks like a three year olds and playing with them and it's just it's abstract art and you know see they've kind of make a mess of that so one of the one of the interesting questions and I think it's because we've got the perspective I'm primarily interacted with service now as a manager or project manager and you are both developers and admins and architects on the platform one of the questions was about whenever you're working on a project and you make a request of a developer hey can you do this and they say no it's too complex and it seems like it should be a pretty easy task you know how do you kind of navigate that conversation or how do you navigate and know as a manager how do you or a project manager how do you know when to say well that's bull a because sometimes you have to cull pool and be to really have a productive conversation about why they're saying no or why they're saying it's too complex so that one's a hard one but just because I've I've been on both sides of that kind of stuff usually I can turn around and say oh yeah that's BS why are we why did you tell me that but if you're asked a question hi can we do this and their first was no that's too complex my first thought would be okay do not know what you're doing second is I'm paying you to do this but I don't know I would turn around and ask okay why is it complex what's it going why we just do this simple thing I mean it well anyways go ahead boils down to knowledge the reality is they you don't have the knowledge you don't know how long those things take and you know I would recommend a couple of things anytime you're asking for something google it okay because you'll find a lot of information on Google that will allow you especially for smaller period of time make sure keep them honest for a while okay and then they will keep steep Jana now don't get me wrong there's a lot of misinformation on Google right but the caveat to that is make sure you're googling the version you're on - I always say from a developer perspective when you're asked to do something before you say no google it but I don't necessarily from a management perspective I Google you want to have something's gonna take you know again I I'm big on the managers leaders the leaders especially need to have a basic understanding of the platform whether it's the basic admin class do ServiceNow has some is now giving their free basic admin glass and it covers things like filtered lists so so you're not looking at 30 different columns that 30 different choices when it should be six choices right and you're not looking at you know the wrong information and they're not saying well I can't do it but yet you know it can be done by a simple admin past you know what I mean yeah - to an extent right because you know I I took what not you know you guys know that when I was your manager I took all the classes that you took with you but I can tell you that I didn't walk out being able to practice it or actually even understand that at the same level that you guys did because when I left I went into other meetings I didn't go and use the information well okay along those lines though I've had managers that didn't take the training I've had managers that did take the train and when I was talking to you and you're requesting I can we do this and I use the terminology and I told you what we were doing you understood it if I tell other managers my like older managers and stuff they don't always they didn't always understand that because they didn't understand the lingo that kind of stuff but so that kind of helps but also the level think of the terminology is very important yeah but you gotta have some kind of confidence in your developers if you don't have confidence your developers you're going to a this is best we'd be us then you've got a you got to kind of think okay are these really the people that need to be working on this though if you're getting hey that's too hard as an answer then maybe you need to rethink those people I can't I mean I don't know the situation I can't say you know get rid of them but you you need to maybe educate yourself just a little bit to make sure that they are going right but you know there's different ways as a developer I would never say no that's too complicated I'd explain it a little bit better go hey you know yeah we could do that but that would take us so far out of the box it mess up upgrades or no the functionality that's in there is kind of locked down we can't change it that way but you know that kind of stuff if you have a basic understanding of the platform if you've taken that in there's a there's a dozen ways to take the admin classes it's 13 hours it free online you can do it's at your own pace go through it yeah but as soon as you have the ability to speak to them about it you just simply ask why this is too complicated why and if they can't explain why then you've got a problem if they explain why and it does in and it doesn't sound like it makes sense then maybe ask some more questions I'm not saying that they're lying but a lot of times when somebody has a lot on their plate they don't want to look at the easy solution because in ServiceNow often there's an easy solution or an easier solution and somebody who is especially a major somebody who's done lots of dev work who doesn't know the platform as well they they see things and they do things in a more complicated way that they don't need to do that and it's not good for the system either but they do that because they don't know any better yeah I'll say you know take both your points to Brett's point the truss I think that in the development world when you're building a development team having a trust between the manager or the project leader and the team is essential I think that you really need to spend the time to make the relationship work and and that requires you know sacrifice on both sides on the manager side they've got to sacrifice some time and some you know depending on your management style you may not be used to slowing down and smelling the roses a little bit but sometimes that really helps to develop the rapport and opens up this face on the other side you know what you know what you said about ask Jason what you said about asking the questions I think that's I think that's key and I think I don't even think you have to I certainly recommend taking the admin class as you talked about but as a manager you shouldn't have to take the class in order to develop that relationship with your team no but you should ask and as a developer I can say that well if you're working for me the number one way to get a lower review was to say no and not offer any explanation to me and I kind of an ass what it was for yeah yeah that's why okay I kind of adopted that from one of our senior leaders he didn't always agree with me but he would always listen to my objections if I brought him a reason you know for you know I couldn't just say no without having an alternative of how to how to do it a different way yeah some supporting reasoning and I think that that's a reasonable expectation from a manager to anyone is okay we have a business objective we have to you know whether you agree with the business objective or not it's the business objective and I think that there is there's a certain level of as management we need to explain how the business objective relates to the customer and relates to what we're doing because there may not be an understanding of that from the from the developer side but I think you know as a developer you also have to have a responsibility to say let me see if I can figure this out you know and I think I've worked with have developed this knee-jerk kind of reaction of this person doesn't understand a word of what they're saying or anything like that so I'm just gonna say no by default that way I don't get roped into anything that's gonna suck the soul out of me or something like that right I can understand and appreciate that now on the flip side and this will hack off a lot of people as an employee I think it's your responsibility to go find out what the customer pain points are as well you really want to excel at your area of expertise find out why the business needs things this way you know go and learn something about it I really love some of the things that we did where we went to different customer areas and just shadowed them for a little while to kind of figure out okay I understand why you complain about this all the time because it sucks you know yep and I had a great boss that taught me how to do that and it's been great since that dog started doing that it is I will say pretty pretty important to make sure you understand your customers but it's also you have to prioritize you know you you ends up you know urgent versus important right you end up fixing the urgent and if you're not listening to your customers and sitting down with them and seeing what their pain points are and seeing how you can help those are the important things those are the things that are going to drive you forward and get people to use it and I can't say enough how important it is to find a good partner in this if you don't if you're outsourcing this and they're telling you no like that then they're not a good partner you don't need to find somebody who will listen to you and come up with a solution that is that and give you the option I could do this solution it's not out of the box but here it is I can do this this and this or I can do this it's within the box and here's your options let you as the leader of your organization make the choice based on your business needs yeah exactly well I think that if you find a partner that's willing to say that maybe not the best thing for us to do we you may need somebody else to handle this particular aspect of it they may be better at say there's a niche you know part of ServiceNow you know if you find someone that's willing to say something like that then that's a good sign you can trust them on other areas yeah yeah well I'm going to tell you also though I've also dealt with both external vendors implementers I've worked with you know those people that just simply didn't have the capability and the skill to do the job and if that's your position if you think that might be the case then you have a long row to hoe because you're gonna have to identify that and it goes in my opinion it's trust to verify at that point you know I trust that you said that now I'm gonna go verify that's the case and you know ask somebody like you know us like you're doing doing here if you you know ask the question and sometimes you're gonna get the answer you want sometimes you're gonna get the answer you don't but I'm gonna find I'm going to tell you that if you're doing some of the minor things and they're telling you they're major you'll find out by you know by letting us help you yeah now one thing that while you're talking about that it also made me think you know I've worked with all kinds of different people I've worked in healthcare industry for 23 24 years now and there's a lot of different personalities all that kind of stuff true developers have a different type of personality than most people so if you start questioning them on why they said no a lot of times they get defensive so you know going well why can't you do it kind of thing kind of puts them on a defensive because that's the kind of mindset that some of those people are so I would suggest when you're asking questions don't try to put them on the defensive try to okay I'm kind of new to this or whatever so can you explain why this is gonna take too longer why this wouldn't work that kind of stuff you're a much nicer person than I am I know but you get what's this you get get more flies with sugar or yeah honey or whatever but you know yeah so it's always good to be kind of like that I mean because in essence you really are trying to learn why would this be too complex I mean I don't know the system you do you know I'm just trying to learn okay so I don't ask you the same question again lighter the stellar team is trust yeah and the bedrock of trust is communication and integrity you happen and so you know it's really well worth spending time even if you're a technical group on communication skills in order to in order to really build that team up if you want to write a world-class team then work on the communication skills and be open about be vulnerable as a manager I think that be authentic and I think that it's the manager's job you know be willing to you've got to just in order to really establish trust with the developer you've got to show them that you're willing to let them run a little bit and that you'll back them up and then in return the developer has to be you know not sink you and so you know there's kind of there's a little building that goes both ways there now when you come to contractors that's a little bit harder to do but you can do it I mean I've worked with several vendors contractors over the years and some of them I still keep in touch with even though they're not our vendors anymore because we we got to talking we got that trust in there and we just keep up with that stuff so let's talk about something nobody wants to face though the reality is sometimes people just can't cut it and it may not be and it may be they need more training it made use and we need a lot of different things there are times where people just can't get it and if situation identify it quickly in resolve the situation well along that time you know we don't really want to talk about sometimes the people you're dealing with or just to put it nicely jerks and you just kind of have to deal with that but you know I was thinking of someone totally different than you honestly I was same floor had an office that I have you know personally I tried too long with people sometimes to bring them up to speed and giving them too many chances and it's damaged the morale of the team and so I think that you know when you've got someone that's an underperformer that chronically underperformed and is not getting the hint either they need to be working for a different manager that can motivate them a different way or they're just not going to cut it in though in the environment that you're in and it's for the team and for that person to go ahead and part ways and do it before you have to do it and hate each other for it right right yep and on the contractor side of it don't ever sign a contract that doesn't let you get out of it for cause and if you start to suspect that a contractor's milking you or lying to you or not trustworthy dump them yeah hold on to them yeah don't don't work with somebody that's just gonna come in and put their template in say okay everything's good and not want to do a job you all see that not just in the ServiceNow world but in a lot of project I've managed a lot of projects a lot of projects that you go in and find the struggle with is you know people hire big-name companies that kind of come in and coast on their name it's kind of like I'm gonna spend you know six hundred dollars on a pair of Nike shoes that cost $35 in another brand it's the exact same you know exact same quality almost yep and so don't don't go with a big name go with quality you know what I mean it's a and there are something big there are some big names that have quality and everything but don't know do your research into the trap of this whole thing that irritates me so much and that is this is a soapbox I'm about to jump on but companies that come in and they go well we've got this tool for the cloud that bullcrap there's no tools for the cloud it's all configuration based on your company's need if anybody comes in and they want to deploy something that flips every switch known to man just because they like doing it and that's worked at another company don't take that contract yeah it needs to be whatever contract is coming in needs to be what your company needs not what they've done somewhere else it's fine listen to that but don't take these people prepackaged and crap that people are shoveling out there sorry all right and I'm you're right and there's been managed service stuff where they're like oh well you're just gonna come in and you're gonna be in it the rest of the 4,000 customers that we have and we're gonna handle your stuff listen that never works out well go to service now get a contract then go to somebody for staff augmentation I just don't see I haven't seen a lot of companies do that manage service very well and I've seen it go wrong more times than not customers literally waiting to get out of their contract so they can dump them in and they can turn around and move into something else it's not doing important projects to move their organization for because of it yeah and I've seen it it's quite sad it always boggles my mind how much money companies can afford to waste on people that aren't listening to them yeah you know it's one thing if a company has a valid reason just like when you're talking to your developer if a company can come in and say we tried that hear hear hear hear here's the results of that it's a disaster don't do it that's one thing but if they're just coming in and they're saying you don't have to think about anything here's the easy button hit the easy button and and give us six figures and it's done well they're lying to you there's no easy button and you know I gotta I gotta tell ya I think the the one thing about external vendors when you do it structure right when you do have that that person who says with every request you have that's too hard or I'm you know I can't I can't do that because it's not out of the box and and it's constant constant pushback and there's no explanation it makes it easier to get to just switch that over oh yeah yep yeah if you got vendors that tell you that stuff's too hard that they don't want to do it that just means that they don't know how to do it I mean you know oh never you know as a consultant I'll never tell you it's too hard I'll tell you it's gonna cost more money I may recommend you not do it I might also recommend you know okay you want to do this but it'd be easier if we do it this way you'll still get the same data that kind of stuff but on straight out no it's too complicated without explanation is just not a valid I mean always go back and say well can you explain why it's too complicated I'm just trying to learn that kind of stuff I like the good approach I'm just trying to learn I just want you know help us avoid this misunderstanding in the future kind of yep exactly as an example it's there's a couple of ways to do almost anything for example if you're doing a filtered list right there's a couple of ways to do a filtered list you can do it with a simple filter you can do it with a script filter and there are several ways to do the filter but none of them are really very difficult the the reality is they should be smart enough to be able to explain to you why it's difficult or what they're doing and if you have just a little bit of knowledge about service now you'll be able to understand what they're saying and that will and then you will understand it and you will get it but if they're not willing to tell you that then and especially if they're an external vendor then you got the wrong vendor yeah well and I offer a little bit more grace than that they should be the experts but they should they should be willing to say I don't know can I give you can you give me X amount of time and I'll get back to you with an answer oh I don't care how long you've worked with service now or how much certifications how much training that there's some part of service now you're not gonna know so you're gonna have to do some research and tell them okay let me get back with you on that yeah there is no end of knowledge you don't reach the yamen because not know an expert yeah and Randy let me ask you question when if I ever said no it's always exciting it's not like I say hey you're picking up the check right sometimes I can't say that I usually say though first when you're sitting there I never tell them no especially initially I go back and I do my research and I make sure that my eyes are not a teaser crossed and I say here's my recommendation yeah yes and it's always here's what its gonna call here's the number of hours it's gonna be this is gonna cost you this much even internally this amount of time to get this yeah yeah I'd be lying if I said I never say no flat out saying it's two times when I get frustrated with people and I just don't want to talk to them I try to say that that wasn't the case I would have to say the people I work with closely if they ask me something just my knee-jerk reaction is no and it's usually just joking with them and then I'll go okay no we can do that or whatever but when it's a paying customer or something like that I or you know we're talking about something and like a project meeting and they are asking can this be done I'll answer them but you know I actually started a bad habit with my kids I'm just saying no by default to everything and I think that's her mind started off yeah the dialogue with the kids honestly and I had to kind of try to unlearn that yeah yeah well I think we may have beaten this point to death on the soapbox here and I apologize for that some of that answered the questions that was asked yes one of the questions that was asked also was a technical question and it was it was about you know having to how do you filter and I think you guys said the answer earlier one of the answers earlier is it was about you know how can you take a list and only have a display a limited amount of information and is that something possibility and servicing home it's pretty simple yes do it mm-hmm there is a simple list filter and you can do that basically based on conditions which is actually very simple you say active is true so you only show active in the in the list view you can you can say that you you can do a script that then returns from a separate table there's lots of ways to do it and the print I I don't no way you consider the best way if it's is a custom table and you've got too many variables showing oh it versus another field well it's all conditional I mean there's so many ways to do it I mean there's always that okay active true so the only one active is true so we're talking about reference fields right now so if you do active is true that kind of stuff you can also do like you said you could do a buy a override on the field and say run go to the script include and run this query but the query could also say go find these two fields on the current on this current ticket use them in the query and come back was just what is there so let's say I'm looking at a form like a user form and I put in their location is location a and then I click on the for reference I click on that and in the background what it does is goes and says okay location a has how many floors three floors okay you'll come back with three floors so you could do that through a query like a script include or something this is not no it's not that hard it's yeah now if you're talking about like dropdowns and you want to modify the drop-down list let's say there's we'll go back to what I just my example so you have a location so you have a drop down with your 16,000 locations so you pick building a or you want to call it and then you go to location you drop that down and show the three floors well in the background what it does is you have your choice lists so in location you have your twenty or sixteen thousand whatever list locations you have good luck with that on the drop-down but anyways you have your drop-down then on your floor locations you would say okay here's all the locations that are all the force that we have in our whole organization but they have a parent category over on this side so you put in building a and that's your parent on those and so whenever you pick your local your location it filters that drop-down list for you so you always have that filter so there's a couple ways to do that and they're also anybody's ever done UI development in their life or front-end web development their life if they tell you there's not a way to filter a list then they're insane because when you're saying I would say the best practice I would think is if you have more than what 15 choices or so I mean if you have too many don't do them in a select box doing a reference go create you a custom table put those there in reference it [Laughter] right you're you're gonna be dealing with calling a table yes it's always it's most often going to be a reference field because you're calling a table they can also do a choice list off a table to the right sometimes people pick the choice lists because they don't know how to do the JavaScript or the queries or anything for a script include to make it even more that way so I mean I have both to be able to do in this script but less yeah we have if you don't even look at that and you're looking at just the base system you have data or assignment lookup rules listen you have data look up definitions you have I mean well you just said it to exact examples there that you can always look at out of the box assignment group all these you know filters out your sign your sign twos so look at the scripting behind that or then you have your category subcategory on the ticket so that is your select box that then narrows down your subcategory kind of things so those are out-of-the-box stuff that you can just go and you know plagiarize the scripting off of that if you need to [Laughter] yeah but we're also you know when you're talking about out-of-the-box stuff a data lookup is simply you you create for example priority you go okay well if if this fields this and this fields this and we're gonna we're gonna automatically set this field and so there are lots of ways to do any one thing and there are lots of ways to do it out of the box the reality is if you have somebody that has a problem doing the basic stuff they just don't have the knowledge either they're if they're internally they need to go start sending them in a training yeah you know right it's some of the free training and and I can't stress this enough if you are a leader you need without a doubt to get to knowledge I can't tell you how many leaders they're like well I'm gonna send I'm gonna send these other people instead because you know I'm the leader but no you need to understand you need to go you need to see the power of the platform because that will keep you engaged going forward through the year and it will teach you so much that you will you will not even know what to do with it and it just is amazing and as a leader I think that you should go if nothing else to show your support for the rest of your rest of the people that are that are on your teams no now I will say as a leader there's a lot of benefit to going knowledge obviously that's where I was converted to not wanting to get the system and really embrace the system and try to do some really good things out of it but go and come back with realistic expectations because as a admin developer a network guy a long time ago I had some bosses that would go to trade shows and you know they'd see an ad sling for something they would buy it they would ship it I would get it in my office delivered they would get a delivery notification and call me go hey is that racked up and installed and working yet and that would be like what are you even talking about there is a lot of magic you can do a service now but it can't be done overnight oh yeah there's a ton of stuff out of the box that can be done and yet don't come back and say ok I want you as a the only admin for a system or you know there might be multiple we need to have demand project idea problem management we change them and all this turned on by next month ad D is what we're saying yep I'm gonna tell you that also brings back to something that is really near and dear to my heart you need to have a project plan you need to have a roadmap you need to understand where you are today and where you're going and unless you go to knowledge it's more difficult to figure that out okay there's one rabbit trail off of a filter on the knowledge and I think you know we have a quote of at least one everything right yeah so there was another question about losing code in ServiceNow and how far back kit is that even possible to lose code how big of an impact is it can you even do that I you know as a manager Jason can you lose code so no you cannot lose code you can delete code that you never delete code never delete anything if a box comes up and tells you to type in delete st. thanks second about it right no tell them no major change in for that and if you do type delete and then say yes and then say yes again be the good guy to be honest about that's why the codes not there anymore entire table you go to your very good wonderful co-worker and say can you please restore to the last backup yeah I didn't okay so okay it depends I guess you could lose code but almost every single thing you do in the system gets put in an update set it doesn't matter if it's the update set that you you know you create so you can move your code from one instance through the other if you're in default everything you do goes into default so your codes down there somewhere yeah they're talking about let's say yeah my guess is they're talking about well we did a clone and we deleted code that we created let's put it this way if so if the code is being deleted in your system somebody screwed up and I've known I've screwed up so it's not don't get me wrong but they both in them somebody screwed up and that's why the code is gone because everything like Brent said has saved an update sets when you move something especially to production it's in there and you know the idea of losing it out of productions not there so yeah I I didn't think about cloning because yes cloning you could definitely clone over your your code let's be realistic about the impact of that though because of the service schedule you're required to do updates every so often so you shouldn't be able to lose six months worth of anything no no I would think that I don't know a person has done this for a while if I have any let's say I'm getting ready clone which I'm getting ready to do clone my production instance over my Devon since anything that's update set or code that I've done in dev or the other admins and developers have done in depth we export that out before we do the clone so it's just something you got to get used to but you know if if you've done it once you're not gonna do it again right you have to go back and redo stuff right and it's more if you're a an architect of the system or you're a lead developer you better have a process that you follow to do climb in in aprea yeah you're gonna find this kind of stuff all the time it's not the one last you need structure yeah I'll say you get a gimme maybe but if you do it more than once then you're just doing a poor job of your W yep right yeah I've never requested a restore from ServiceNow have you done that before Jason yes and I'm not saying it's your fault but I mean how can they do is it like a snapshot and they just you know an hour back they they go back and do it or is it like a day before it's not production and it's changed actually so long story short in Devon Tet it's all changed now in your production system it's going to be pretty real time backups which is pretty nice Devon tests are going to be the same now they used to be do once a day kind of thing and so you lose data but in this case they're they're backing up on a continuous basis which is kind of new and so this is so if you need to do it back up I think you can get one more readily available in Devon test so you don't have to lose quite so much okay but you can do a restore say okay yeah so bottom line you can mess up you can lose code you can set yourself back but there are options that should limit that possibility yep and especially now I think that there's github integration now as well with you can do your update sets and then or when you're doing a custom app you can yeah sync with github and stuff like that so there's code control that you can implement on top of their backups to export updates it's an import update set as well come Madrid they have a whole restore portion of service now so you delete something you can go in there and restore almost anything you actually delete so it's different than it used to be when I think it was slow yeah it wasn't there was not the functionality to go I think I wanted to undelete that right and I think it was actually London that had that wasn't it the things start in London but yeah they have a recycle bin pretty much and I've used that a couple times just to see if it worked not because we deleted anything is just I deleted it and see if it bring it back but and it did but I don't I've never tested it with a scope def though I all have to see what will work on the scope and you know okay the thing is it also works with scripts so give me a great example if you're doing brown script and you're and you end up deleting everything in the incident table [Applause] okay so what what you do on that is background script and you tell it don't do the function just print out that what's gonna do and then you can go okay that's what I wanted it to do so we can talk about background scripts later yeah yeah yeah know for sure there are ways to protect yourself actually have never done anything in a background script that caused any problems because I do exactly what Brent says and I rent like 12 times doing a print oh I had a vendor that did it and just retired every CI in our database oh there are only 3.5 million so it was fun Wow all right so I think I think we've answered that question question was now no can you delete code Gillian Cub yes and so the answer is not not really so well you can but be very careful with the cloning that kind of stuff but yeah no exactly okay so Randy and Randy I know you've got another question here I think there's one more two more okay there are pieces of of things that don't move forward when you do an upgrade though like data pieces so if you're moving from from dev to prod some there are some time don'tmove is that correct okay so on a clone if you're cloning prod over it moves data but it doesn't move large things like all the attachments and that kind of stuff but if you're moving stuff in update sets it does it only moves certain tables and certain scripting that kind of stuff you will not move your data over so let's say you would say when you're when you're moving new stuff that you might have to redo something it's that or there's other ways around that you can let's say you're gonna create a catalog item and you've done all your stuff and you're now doing a workflow or a execution plan and you say it the assignment group needs to be this assignment group and it's just an assignment group that you just created in dev you do all your testing and then you're like okay I'm skipping tests I'm just putting this in prod which is not a good thing but some people do it so you complete your update set you move it over to prod now that catalog item doesn't have that that group that you just created in dev so you have to either you have to manually export that group out and move it over or create a new one in prod that kind of stuff but you got to keep in mind when you create that new group and prod it's gonna have a difference this ID so you have to go update your workflow or execution plan so that data stuff that is put in the tables don't always move with your update set okay there is a cool tool out on the shop that I was pointed to by ServiceNow that ads in your development system you can and I can't remember the name but when you install it it will add a action on every form this says add this to my update set so if you are in a group you can click that little as an admin in dev you can click that little action and it will take what you just created that normally wouldn't be on the update set and put it in the update set that's a really cool tool that you have to be careful with though yeah you definitely want to be careful with that kind of stuff but it does it does help so but I think it all boils down to process right yes it does process in place all of that stuff like I wouldn't I wouldn't use that tool necessarily because I just what I end up doing is I export those out and import those in especially if it's large lists right yes large lists I would export and import that kind of stuff yes and then you're done I mean you you have a process to process move the update set then after the update sets move you import the the the XML or the export of the data and then boom you're there the thing is if you don't have a process and you don't have a structure around it you're gonna screw up and and and that's when you realize that you need a better architect or developer or implementer right yeah all right we get two more questions to kind of cover and we've really kind of probably this is one of the longest ones we've done so one of the questions was are there any tips on integrating with JIRA or another project tool like that yeah it's just it was on because he's worth with JIRA before but the answer is I think there's out-of-the-box stuff for JIRA there is there's two out of box folks it starts as early as London but the Madrid in New York have an updated spoke now you have to have an integration hub subscription to use the spoke so if you don't you'll have to hit it with the API and it's a little different but with the built-in integration you can like manage manage issues users you can manage stories you can bring in the data you can use that data in in flow you know it's bi-directional and it does callbacks through the URL so I mean there's lots of it's pretty functional but again you would need to have the supported version of ServiceNow yeah I have not worked with Jared but I've worked with importing in us project and we did it through custom so calls and that kind of stuff but when you're updating a project plan for an ServiceNow from another project a lot of times the bi-directional is not always the cleanest so sometimes that what's coming back from like project into ServiceNow will overwrite what users have done in that project already so you got to be careful with some of that stuff by the way absolutely absolutely yeah and if there's not an out-of-the-box integration for what you want there's usually an API integration and a web developer you know someone who's used to doing web dev can be a pretty good guide to connecting the API stuff up yep yep and then I with anything more specific than that we'd have to kind of know what exactly are you wanting to do and pull across and things like that huh extremely specific questions we can research them and answering as well and then the last thing was something we've touched on repeatedly as as we talked was about the training and kind of how to get up to speed and in how to build that you know knowledge so that you can build passion and empower and I know that ServiceNow just launched a new portal for training and they're offering some courses for free that are very good courses it used to be a thousand dollars or two thousand dollars or something like that and what is that is it's learning not now learning or learning now now now learning dart service - now calm okay yeah you have to have your community login or no this is the community so one of the login so you have to have a login to log in and then you have paths that you can follow or you can just go find the free on-demand courses there what's the they just released the admin class the funnel metals your fundamentals class as free free fundamentals class and I'm gonna tell you I even went through it just as a refresher and you know there are some changes to terminology that even Heist picked up as going through it just you know as you kind of go through you'll find that they change terminology from one version to another so it helps you stay current even if you are an experienced - you know deaf guy and an experienced architect you know making sure that you go and do those kind of continuous learning really important and I think that that is a good place also udemy has some good courses in my opinion as well and they're always seemingly on sale for like 10 bucks yeah so wait two days and you'll get an email saying exactly that's a good good place they have some admin class and developer class and implementation classes there so I think that's pretty good learning there as well pretty good knowledge there yeah have you out there they're not always current because of how fast ServiceNow releases new stuff yeah right now on this now learning for ServiceNow the fundamentals class that was thirteen hours long I can't believe you had 13 hours free that you could do that again Jason and I let my I have my developer serve my implementation certification all these certifications that I go I don't really need the admin one I've got all these upper-level ones it turns out it's required for the master architect certification mm-hmm so I'm making sure I'm brushed up on it to finish that out so I can my my goal is gee did the master and that's why was he a nurse a is until I was just looking at the this I don't know if they're still doing it the other day I was looking and if you take the 13 hour course and tell about what they say March or something they're giving you a free voucher to go get the certification so because even if you've done it right now go through it again so you can get that voucher and try yeah notice they went up on there on there the prices for their further tests no I yeah well they're making their classes cheaper so they're going up on their tests yeah they're the one thing that I don't know if they're moving away from this since they've created the new portal but just going to developer doctor is now.com word service - now come whichever one works um is the right one but you could sign up for a developer account get a developer instance of ServiceNow to mess around and they have some guided paths that walk you through you know creating catalog item creating lists filtering liske and UI rules and business rules and things like that that was extremely helpful and you can do them and in you know 30 minute to one our chunks yeah absolutely it's really great and they give you a lot of lotta Lotta up there in the community is really good I'm gonna say that the it's gotten so big that there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff that's unanswered and there's a lot of stuff that's you know more difficult to find now than it used to be because it used to be a little smaller community but with that being said it's still a wonderful resource oh yeah because the community I unlike some other communities I've been part of the developers and the people that ServiceNow I actually answer questions on the community pretty quickly I haven't used it in a long time I got kind of relaxed and hadn't been going in there I used to answer help try to answer questions for people I started doing that again so hopefully get a little bit more out there now another another thing if you are a developer if you're somebody or an admin somebody that troubleshoot and somebody that figures out answers and you want to refine that one of the things that I thought I felt is helpful is in the mornings check Tomasi does a daily he actually goes through the community and answers questions yeah it's a really helpful thing to see him answer the questions and go through why it is what it is so that's a that's a good thing to watch as well in any video by Chuck and those guys they have some videos that are it's called tech now they're really great I think I've watched every video of there's at least four times so you feel you know those are there's a lot of resources out there guys want to know more and that's what I keep telling everybody everybody Zach we're going to learn stuff and I'm like well you want to know more there's lots of resources out there when do you sleep Jason if you if you reach out to us you know we'll be a resource to ya what this stuff yeah well you can tell by this podcast if you ask questions we're gonna try to answer them with as many words as possible so you know we really appreciate the you know the questions it's great to hear that that people are getting some use out of this we're very passionate about the platform we'll talk about it whether people listen or not but it's also fun trip yeah we get feedback and know people are listening so keep sending us your comments and everything yep all right guys well thank you Brent Randy you guys are awesome wonderful thank you well thank you I appreciate it next time we're gonna have a lot of fun as well and stay tuned because we're gonna have some maybe some more information on Orlando as a sidenote in the next one so yeah to talk to you guys about that but until until we hear from you next I appreciate it thank you thank you thank you have a great one Matt 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